Topics

[Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Very interesting, Clark.  Are you saying these were all gons?

 

Thanks!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Clark Propst
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 2:11 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

Below are some examples of sand cars. Beings this is an M&StL list there were lots of their GS gons. I only copied one.

RR

NO_

SERIES

TYPE1

CARGO

DATE

CB&Q

190672

190000-191749

HM

sand

10/2/59

CB&Q

192362

192000-193199

HM

sand

9/4/59

DTI

7023

7000-7299

GBS

sand

9/2/59

GN

74989

74500-74999

GS

sand       

"9-11-50"

IC

93646

92000-93749

HM

sand       

"7-28-50"

M&StL

30487

30001-30499

GS

sand

7/15/59

M&StL

65181

65001-65255

HM

sand

4/25/59

M&StL

66013

66001-66499

HT

sand       

"7-15-48"

M&StL

70005

700003-70017

LO

sand

6/19/59

WAB

37263

37000-37799

HM

sand

8/14/59

WAB

37552

37000-37799

HM

sand

9/28/59

WAB

37786

37000-37799

HM

sand

9/30/59

Jeffrey White
 

The IC car is a 55 ton open hopper.  Built in 1949 by Pullman Standard.  From the car diagram it looks like the Alternate Standard Offset Hopper that the IC had thousands of.

Jeff White

Alma, IL

On 6/16/2020 1:45 PM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

Very interesting, Clark.  Are you saying these were all gons?

 

Thanks!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Clark Propst
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 2:11 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

Below are some examples of sand cars. Beings this is an M&StL list there were lots of their GS gons. I only copied one.

RR

NO_

SERIES

TYPE1

CARGO

DATE

CB&Q

190672

190000-191749

HM

sand

10/2/59

CB&Q

192362

192000-193199

HM

sand

9/4/59

DTI

7023

7000-7299

GBS

sand

9/2/59

GN

74989

74500-74999

GS

sand       

"9-11-50"

IC

93646

92000-93749

HM

sand       

"7-28-50"

M&StL

30487

30001-30499

GS

sand

7/15/59

M&StL

65181

65001-65255

HM

sand

4/25/59

M&StL

66013

66001-66499

HT

sand       

"7-15-48"

M&StL

70005

700003-70017

LO

sand

6/19/59

WAB

37263

37000-37799

HM

sand

8/14/59

WAB

37552

37000-37799

HM

sand

9/28/59

WAB

37786

37000-37799

HM

sand

9/30/59

Nelson Moyer
 

The HM cars are hoppers.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 1:46 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

Very interesting, Clark.  Are you saying these were all gons?

 

Thanks!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Clark Propst
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 2:11 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

Below are some examples of sand cars. Beings this is an M&StL list there were lots of their GS gons. I only copied one.

RR

NO_

SERIES

TYPE1

CARGO

DATE

CB&Q

190672

190000-191749

HM

sand

10/2/59

CB&Q

192362

192000-193199

HM

sand

9/4/59

DTI

7023

7000-7299

GBS

sand

9/2/59

GN

74989

74500-74999

GS

sand       

"9-11-50"

IC

93646

92000-93749

HM

sand       

"7-28-50"

M&StL

30487

30001-30499

GS

sand

7/15/59

M&StL

65181

65001-65255

HM

sand

4/25/59

M&StL

66013

66001-66499

HT

sand       

"7-15-48"

M&StL

70005

700003-70017

LO

sand

6/19/59

WAB

37263

37000-37799

HM

sand

8/14/59

WAB

37552

37000-37799

HM

sand

9/28/59

WAB

37786

37000-37799

HM

sand

9/30/59

Douglas Harding
 

Elden, the HM and HT are open hoppers. The GS & GBS are gons. The LO is one of the MSTL covered hoppers used for company sand. They only had 10 of these cars.

 

Also note that Clark has typed an extra 0 in the MSTL LO listing.

 

It is quite possible an error was contained in the handwritten documents from which Clark has transcribed into his spreadsheet.

 

From another source, on the MSTL:

7/6/1945 NH 60587 load of sand to Clare Iowa

 

7/13/1947 PRR 334732 sand to Iowa Highway Commission at Dallas Center IA

7/13/1947 NH 58108 sand to Iowa Highway Commission at Dallas Center IA

7/13/1947 MSTL 30423 sand to Iowa Highway Commission at Dallas Center IA

 

7/16/1947 MSTL 30291 Co sand

8/8/1947 CBQ 166113 sand to Grand Jct IA

 

MSTL 30423 & 30291 were GA all steel 41’ drop bottom gons

You’ll have to look up the other cars yourself.

 

Doug  Harding (another MSTL fan)

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 1:46 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

Very interesting, Clark.  Are you saying these were all gons?

 

Thanks!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Clark Propst
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 2:11 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

Below are some examples of sand cars. Beings this is an M&StL list there were lots of their GS gons. I only copied one.

RR

NO_

SERIES

TYPE1

CARGO

DATE

CB&Q

190672

190000-191749

HM

sand

10/2/59

CB&Q

192362

192000-193199

HM

sand

9/4/59

DTI

7023

7000-7299

GBS

sand

9/2/59

GN

74989

74500-74999

GS

sand       

"9-11-50"

IC

93646

92000-93749

HM

sand       

"7-28-50"

M&StL

30487

30001-30499

GS

sand

7/15/59

M&StL

65181

65001-65255

HM

sand

4/25/59

M&StL

66013

66001-66499

HT

sand       

"7-15-48"

M&StL

70005

700003-70017

LO

sand

6/19/59

WAB

37263

37000-37799

HM

sand

8/14/59

WAB

37552

37000-37799

HM

sand

9/28/59

WAB

37786

37000-37799

HM

sand

9/30/59

CJ Riley
 

In Pittsburgh they were cement trucks to the Italian construction workers but concrete trucks to the rest. Often called “Italian ice cream!”



Randy Hammill
 

The NH cars were 41' drop-bottom gondolas. 

Any idea where the sand was shipped from? I highly doubt it was loaded on the NH. There are no loads of sand shipping from CT in the 1950-1954 1% waybill study, although that doesn't mean that none at all shipped since that was only 1%. I don't have the data for RI or MA, so maybe from there. But that seems like a long trip for something like sand.

Randy
--

Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com

Douglas Harding
 

Randy lots of sand pits in Iowa. The car was coming from Des Moines. Des Moines has two rivers, and lots of sand and gravel pits. I suspect the car was loaded in the Des Moines area. The bigger question is what was a NH 41’ gon doing in Iowa? It must have been off loaded in Des Moines, perhaps on the MSTL. Then loaded with sand and the MSTL took it to Dallas Center team track for the Highway Department. Des Moines did/does have a lot of manufacturing.

 

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Randy Hammill
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 12:03 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

The NH cars were 41' drop-bottom gondolas. 

Any idea where the sand was shipped from? I highly doubt it was loaded on the NH. There are no loads of sand shipping from CT in the 1950-1954 1% waybill study, although that doesn't mean that none at all shipped since that was only 1%. I don't have the data for RI or MA, so maybe from there. But that seems like a long trip for something like sand.

Randy
--

Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com

Peter Ness
 

For some time, the New Haven shipped sand in gondolas from Cape Cod in MA.  I think this lasted as long as there was freight service, but I’ve also thought the sand was only for use at NH locomotive terminals. I also don’t know anything about the business side – if there were sand dealers involved or it it was entirely a railroad operation.  From very early years there was demand for sand in the Cape Cod area as there was glass manufacturing and a few local foundries.

 

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Randy Hammill
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 1:03 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

The NH cars were 41' drop-bottom gondolas. 

Any idea where the sand was shipped from? I highly doubt it was loaded on the NH. There are no loads of sand shipping from CT in the 1950-1954 1% waybill study, although that doesn't mean that none at all shipped since that was only 1%. I don't have the data for RI or MA, so maybe from there. But that seems like a long trip for something like sand.

Randy
--

Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com

Mont Switzer
 

As long as everyone is weighing in on the transportation of various types of sand here goes.  The Monon had lot of sand on line near Lake Michigan at Michigan City, IN, known as the Indiana Sand Dunes.  Old photos show sand being shoveled into boxcars, destinations unknown.

 

Particularly interesting is how locomotive sand was handled at Monon, Indiana, up until about 1969.  The Monon  RR had a 3 stall engine house at Monon , IN, and kept 1 to 3 locomotives there at any given time.  The engine house was actually 4 stalls wide, but the second stall from the south did not have a track going into it.  Instead that was where a sand drying furnace was located.

 

Locomotive sand was hauled in in gondolas from Michigan City.  The gon was spotted inside the engine house on the first track to the south.  The sand was then shoveled into the drier as needed.  Dried sand was carried to the locomotives in buckets and dispensed into them.  

 

The Monon dieselized in 1946 and 1947, in the steam era for the purposes of this list.  (all railroads dieselized in the steam era I believe)  Most power was EMD and sand filler hatches were located on the sides of the F-3's and BL-2's about the same level as the cab floors.   A full length platform was therefore built on both sides of the northerly most engine house stall track which also had the inspection pit.  This allowed the bucket carrying hostler to walk up a set of steps and onto a platform to add sand to the locomotive being serviced.

 

Lots of hard work for a lot of years.  This system was only replaced when the engine house was torn down  and locomotive servicing moved closer to the station near downtown Monon.  Overhead sanding towers and hoses were installed at that time, well beyond the steam era.

 

Mont Switzer


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] on behalf of Peter Ness [prness@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 8:07 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

For some time, the New Haven shipped sand in gondolas from Cape Cod in MA.  I think this lasted as long as there was freight service, but I’ve also thought the sand was only for use at NH locomotive terminals. I also don’t know anything about the business side – if there were sand dealers involved or it it was entirely a railroad operation.  From very early years there was demand for sand in the Cape Cod area as there was glass manufacturing and a few local foundries.

 

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Randy Hammill
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 1:03 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

The NH cars were 41' drop-bottom gondolas. 

Any idea where the sand was shipped from? I highly doubt it was loaded on the NH. There are no loads of sand shipping from CT in the 1950-1954 1% waybill study, although that doesn't mean that none at all shipped since that was only 1%. I don't have the data for RI or MA, so maybe from there. But that seems like a long trip for something like sand.

Randy
--

Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com

Dennis Storzek
 

On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 05:58 AM, Mont Switzer wrote:
(all railroads dieselized in the steam era I believe)
I donno Mont. It was well into the diesel era before the CSS&SB (South Shore) dieselized.

Dennis Storzek

Mont Switzer
 

Well Dennis, you got me there.  That will teach me to be a wise guy.  Mont 



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
Date: 6/17/20 11:31 AM (GMT-04:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 05:58 AM, Mont Switzer wrote:
(all railroads dieselized in the steam era I believe)
I donno Mont. It was well into the diesel era before the CSS&SB (South Shore) dieselized.

Dennis Storzek