Topics

[Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: 235, 000 Pound Casting, Very Short Flat Cars


Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Claus;

 

We were holding a side discussion on this, and absolutely believe trucks were taken as war booty for use in the U.S. post-WW1.

 

Cheap way of obtaining HD trucks!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 5:27 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: 235, 000 Pound Casting, Very Short Flat Cars

 

Hi List Members,

 

I'll add that the trucks look identical to the ones on this car (see attached image). This is a move of a gun on the PRR thru Altoona PA in Dec 1918. (Note that a lower resolution copy of this same image is also available online at Blockedhttps://digital.hagley.org/PRR_ME04655 )

 

Also, there is a second image of a car, identical to Bethlehem Steel 900, this time with LV reporting marks available online at Blockedhttps://digital.hagley.org/PRR_ME04356 . It is - somewhat surprisingly - in the Hagley PRR Photo Archive and it has a PRR photo archive number ME4356 inscribed upon the negative! There is no question in my mind that  the LV car is the same car as Bethlehem 900.

 

I'm starting to conclude that these trucks were moved and rebuilt/repurposed/resold at least a few times in their lifetime.

 

Claus Schlund

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 5:01 PM

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: 235,000 Pound Casting, Very Short Flat Cars

 

Hi Bob, Bruce and List Members,

 

The image Bruce attached, of Bethlehem 900, sure looks a whole lot like this PRR car at the link below...

 

 

And the trucks in the images Bob posted sure look to be a match as well.

 

Claus Schlund

 

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Bruce Smith

Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2020 5:33 PM

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: 235,000 Pound Casting, Very Short Flat Cars

 

Fascinating. These trucks are identical to those under Bethlehem Steel 900 in the attached photo. 

 

The PRR flat car(s) carrying "Big Bertha" to the Columbian Exposition were PRR class FG, 5116a, 5116b, 5117a, and 5117b. Class FG could be assembled as either a single car with 4 trucks, 2 span bolsters, and a bridge, or two cars consisting a two trucks and a bridge each. 

 

Clearly, the photo posted by Bob uses the load as the carbody, which was not at all unusual. You can see the pivot points on each car under the load. 

 

Ed - My interpretation of the numbering of the trucks is that the TWO in the photo Bob posted are the trucks for PRR 425483. The bridge has been replaced by the load. There are another two trucks and car body/bridge that would make up 425484

 

Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Charlie Vlk <cvlk@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2020 2:57 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: 235,000 Pound Casting, Very Short Flat Cars

 

I suspected that it was a PRR car….funny that it doesn’t have any reporting marks other than the number, at least that I noticed on the photo.

This may be the “car” used to haul the Krupp Gun barrel to the 1893 Columbian Exposition.  I don’t think I retained any pictures of that car but the European-style “trucks” look familiar.

Charlie Vlk

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of spsalso via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2020 2:53 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: 235,000 Pound Casting, Very Short Flat Cars

 

The drawbar is that big thing on top with all the writing on it.

A question might be whether the whole assembly (car and load) was ever mixing into a generic train, or was handled individually.  The second photo hints at the latter.  Maybe.

Too, a person might wonder how the subject car was returned empty.  Maybe that gon is carrying the "return drawbar".

The car is listed in my November 1926 ORER as PRR 425483 and 425484 (In the photos, it's 425483 A and B).  Capacity is listed as 150,000 pounds.  It's called a "Flat, Gun and Cable Steel".



Ed

Edward Sutorik









On Sat, Jul 18, 2020 at 11:37 AM, mel perry wrote:

no drawbar or coupler?

mel perry

 


Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Elden,
 
Any chance you could forward to me one or more of the emails in that discussion? I'd love to read thru them
 
Claus
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: 235, 000 Pound Casting, Very Short Flat Cars

Claus;

 

We were holding a side discussion on this, and absolutely believe trucks were taken as war booty for use in the U.S. post-WW1.

 

Cheap way of obtaining HD trucks!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 5:27 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: 235, 000 Pound Casting, Very Short Flat Cars

 

Hi List Members,

 

I'll add that the trucks look identical to the ones on this car (see attached image). This is a move of a gun on the PRR thru Altoona PA in Dec 1918. (Note that a lower resolution copy of this same image is also available online at Blockedhttps://digital.hagley.org/PRR_ME04655 )

 

Also, there is a second image of a car, identical to Bethlehem Steel 900, this time with LV reporting marks available online at Blockedhttps://digital.hagley.org/PRR_ME04356 . It is - somewhat surprisingly - in the Hagley PRR Photo Archive and it has a PRR photo archive number ME4356 inscribed upon the negative! There is no question in my mind that  the LV car is the same car as Bethlehem 900.

 

I'm starting to conclude that these trucks were moved and rebuilt/repurposed/resold at least a few times in their lifetime.

 

Claus Schlund

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 5:01 PM

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: 235,000 Pound Casting, Very Short Flat Cars

 

Hi Bob, Bruce and List Members,

 

The image Bruce attached, of Bethlehem 900, sure looks a whole lot like this PRR car at the link below...

 

 

And the trucks in the images Bob posted sure look to be a match as well.

 

Claus Schlund

 

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Bruce Smith

Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2020 5:33 PM

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: 235,000 Pound Casting, Very Short Flat Cars

 

Fascinating. These trucks are identical to those under Bethlehem Steel 900 in the attached photo. 

 

The PRR flat car(s) carrying "Big Bertha" to the Columbian Exposition were PRR class FG, 5116a, 5116b, 5117a, and 5117b. Class FG could be assembled as either a single car with 4 trucks, 2 span bolsters, and a bridge, or two cars consisting a two trucks and a bridge each. 

 

Clearly, the photo posted by Bob uses the load as the carbody, which was not at all unusual. You can see the pivot points on each car under the load. 

 

Ed - My interpretation of the numbering of the trucks is that the TWO in the photo Bob posted are the trucks for PRR 425483. The bridge has been replaced by the load. There are another two trucks and car body/bridge that would make up 425484

 

Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Charlie Vlk <cvlk@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2020 2:57 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: 235,000 Pound Casting, Very Short Flat Cars

 

I suspected that it was a PRR car….funny that it doesn’t have any reporting marks other than the number, at least that I noticed on the photo.

This may be the “car” used to haul the Krupp Gun barrel to the 1893 Columbian Exposition.  I don’t think I retained any pictures of that car but the European-style “trucks” look familiar.

Charlie Vlk

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of spsalso via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2020 2:53 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: 235,000 Pound Casting, Very Short Flat Cars

 

The drawbar is that big thing on top with all the writing on it.

A question might be whether the whole assembly (car and load) was ever mixing into a generic train, or was handled individually.  The second photo hints at the latter.  Maybe.

Too, a person might wonder how the subject car was returned empty.  Maybe that gon is carrying the "return drawbar".

The car is listed in my November 1926 ORER as PRR 425483 and 425484 (In the photos, it's 425483 A and B).  Capacity is listed as 150,000 pounds.  It's called a "Flat, Gun and Cable Steel".



Ed

Edward Sutorik









On Sat, Jul 18, 2020 at 11:37 AM, mel perry wrote:

no drawbar or coupler?

mel perry

 


Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Dang, Claus, I deleted them!

 

Suffice it to say, they paralleled your points.  The trucks look foreign, not of American manufacture.  They are very heavy, something American RRs had yet to replicate.  The era of large Heavy-Duty flat cars, experimental hoppers, was yet to come, even as industry pushed them harder and harder.

 

The story of the PRR F28 and F29 is illustrative of this shoving match, but on the horizon.  This is WAY earlier.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2020 10:12 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: 235, 000 Pound Casting, Very Short Flat Cars

 

Hi Elden,

 

Any chance you could forward to me one or more of the emails in that discussion? I'd love to read thru them

 

Claus

 

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:38 PM

Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: 235, 000 Pound Casting, Very Short Flat Cars

 

Claus;

 

We were holding a side discussion on this, and absolutely believe trucks were taken as war booty for use in the U.S. post-WW1.

 

Cheap way of obtaining HD trucks!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 5:27 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: 235, 000 Pound Casting, Very Short Flat Cars

 

Hi List Members,

 

I'll add that the trucks look identical to the ones on this car (see attached image). This is a move of a gun on the PRR thru Altoona PA in Dec 1918. (Note that a lower resolution copy of this same image is also available online at BlockedBlockedhttps://digital.hagley.org/PRR_ME04655 )

 

Also, there is a second image of a car, identical to Bethlehem Steel 900, this time with LV reporting marks available online at BlockedBlockedhttps://digital.hagley.org/PRR_ME04356 . It is - somewhat surprisingly - in the Hagley PRR Photo Archive and it has a PRR photo archive number ME4356 inscribed upon the negative! There is no question in my mind that  the LV car is the same car as Bethlehem 900.

 

I'm starting to conclude that these trucks were moved and rebuilt/repurposed/resold at least a few times in their lifetime.

 

Claus Schlund

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 5:01 PM

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: 235,000 Pound Casting, Very Short Flat Cars

 

Hi Bob, Bruce and List Members,

 

The image Bruce attached, of Bethlehem 900, sure looks a whole lot like this PRR car at the link below...

 

 

And the trucks in the images Bob posted sure look to be a match as well.

 

Claus Schlund

 

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Bruce Smith

Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2020 5:33 PM

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: 235,000 Pound Casting, Very Short Flat Cars

 

Fascinating. These trucks are identical to those under Bethlehem Steel 900 in the attached photo. 

 

The PRR flat car(s) carrying "Big Bertha" to the Columbian Exposition were PRR class FG, 5116a, 5116b, 5117a, and 5117b. Class FG could be assembled as either a single car with 4 trucks, 2 span bolsters, and a bridge, or two cars consisting a two trucks and a bridge each. 

 

Clearly, the photo posted by Bob uses the load as the carbody, which was not at all unusual. You can see the pivot points on each car under the load. 

 

Ed - My interpretation of the numbering of the trucks is that the TWO in the photo Bob posted are the trucks for PRR 425483. The bridge has been replaced by the load. There are another two trucks and car body/bridge that would make up 425484

 

Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Charlie Vlk <cvlk@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2020 2:57 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: 235,000 Pound Casting, Very Short Flat Cars

 

I suspected that it was a PRR car….funny that it doesn’t have any reporting marks other than the number, at least that I noticed on the photo.

This may be the “car” used to haul the Krupp Gun barrel to the 1893 Columbian Exposition.  I don’t think I retained any pictures of that car but the European-style “trucks” look familiar.

Charlie Vlk

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of spsalso via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2020 2:53 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: 235,000 Pound Casting, Very Short Flat Cars

 

The drawbar is that big thing on top with all the writing on it.

A question might be whether the whole assembly (car and load) was ever mixing into a generic train, or was handled individually.  The second photo hints at the latter.  Maybe.

Too, a person might wonder how the subject car was returned empty.  Maybe that gon is carrying the "return drawbar".

The car is listed in my November 1926 ORER as PRR 425483 and 425484 (In the photos, it's 425483 A and B).  Capacity is listed as 150,000 pounds.  It's called a "Flat, Gun and Cable Steel".



Ed

Edward Sutorik









On Sat, Jul 18, 2020 at 11:37 AM, mel perry wrote:

no drawbar or coupler?

mel perry