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[Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Carbon Black Car?


Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Bob and all;

 

I see two Skelgas and at least three other (one being a UTLX), what look like ICC-105-300’s, almost certainly in compressed gas service.  Is there a production area in the vicinity?

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2020 12:42 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Carbon Black Car?

 

Photo: Carbon Black Car?

A 1955 photo from the Oklahoma Historical Society:

Blockedhttps://gateway.okhistory.org/ark:/67531/metadc193102/?q=train

Click on the photo to enlarge it and use the Zoom button to enlarge it further.

The covered hopper appears to be a carbon black car.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


mopacfirst
 

Where there's coal in Pennsylvania, there are oilfields in Oklahoma.  There famously was and is at least one producing well on the Capitol grounds on the near north side of OKC.

Actually, there's coal in Oklahoma too, but by the postwar era the oil and gas were much more important.  There were numerous refineries (for oil, which could have also processed the associated gas) and gas plants (for the fields that were predominantly gas).  In the late steam era, most of the shipping of refined product was by rail since long-distance pipelines were still relatively unusual.  I'm sure someone can provide many more specifics.  

The Skelgas cars were probably UTLX, also.  I believe those have been well documented.

Ron Merrick


James SANDIFER
 

Oil companies merged, bought each other, and bought and sold refineries.  I would like to see a list of active refineries and their brands circa 1950.

Skelly at one time had a refinery in El Dorado, KS, just north of the Oklahoma line on the Santa Fe. Tulsa, Arkansas City (ar Kansas City) and Bartlesville were all big refinery towns in northern Oklahoma.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2020 12:51 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Carbon Black Car?

 

Bob and all;

 

I see two Skelgas and at least three other (one being a UTLX), what look like ICC-105-300’s, almost certainly in compressed gas service.  Is there a production area in the vicinity?

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2020 12:42 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Carbon Black Car?

 

Photo: Carbon Black Car?

A 1955 photo from the Oklahoma Historical Society:

Blockedhttps://gateway.okhistory.org/ark:/67531/metadc193102/?q=train

Click on the photo to enlarge it and use the Zoom button to enlarge it further.

The covered hopper appears to be a carbon black car.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Tony Thompson
 

Steve SANDIFER wrote:

Oil companies merged, bought each other, and bought and sold refineries.  I would like to see a list of active refineries and their brands circa 1950.
Skelly at one time had a refinery in El Dorado, KS, just north of the Oklahoma line on the Santa Fe. Tulsa, Arkansas City (ar Kansas City) and Bartlesville were all big refinery towns in northern Oklahoma.

     Google and you shall find.

Tony Thompson




mopacfirst
 

Steve is right, and remember in the steam era there were a lot more refineries than in later years, but of course they were much smaller, which probably makes them more suitable for modeling.  Another point to remember model-wise is that only a relatively small portion of the plot is taken up with process units, with much more of the acreage occupied by the tank farm, which is where the loading racks would be anyway.  A typical refinery might have one or two lead tracks extending into the process areas if that happens to be where the plant storehouse is (receiving materials), but most of the trackage is at the very edges of the plot.

Ron Merrick, piping engineer


Tim O'Connor
 


Does UTLX 96720 look like an ACF built tank car? Is it the same as the Kadee model?

Tim O'Connor


On 7/8/2020 1:50 PM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

Bob and all;

 

I see two Skelgas and at least three other (one being a UTLX), what look like ICC-105-300’s, almost certainly in compressed gas service.  Is there a production area in the vicinity?

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2020 12:42 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Carbon Black Car?

 

Photo: Carbon Black Car?

A 1955 photo from the Oklahoma Historical Society:

Blockedhttps://gateway.okhistory.org/ark:/67531/metadc193102/?q=train

Click on the photo to enlarge it and use the Zoom button to enlarge it further.

The covered hopper appears to be a carbon black car.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Steve and Barb Hile
 

UTLX 96720 would have been part of a group of cars ordered in 1951 but not completed until 1953, so weren’t listed in the Jan 1952 roster, which can be seen in the files section of this group.

 

I probably should have included this information into the roster in the UTLX book, so it was an oversight on my part.

 

Here are three more lines that could be included into Appendix 2

 

96412 – 96461    11,000   Z5-300   ACF        1951       50           50           Lot 3748.  Completed 6-14-52.  Commercial design

96462 – 96712    11,000   X5-300  Graver and Whiting         1952       251         251        

96713 – 96949    11,000   X5-300  Graver and Whiting         1952       237         236         Completed 4-17-53

 

Bottom line is, no, 96720 is not the Atlas model, it is a UTLX design car with a tank built by Graver and the car assembled at UTLX, Whiting, Indiana.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Steve  

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2020 8:38 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Carbon Black Car?

 


Does UTLX 96720 look like an ACF built tank car? Is it the same as the Kadee model?

Tim O'Connor


On 7/8/2020 1:50 PM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

Bob and all;

 

I see two Skelgas and at least three other (one being a UTLX), what look like ICC-105-300’s, almost certainly in compressed gas service.  Is there a production area in the vicinity?

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2020 12:42 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Carbon Black Car?

 

Photo: Carbon Black Car?

A 1955 photo from the Oklahoma Historical Society:

Blockedhttps://gateway.okhistory.org/ark:/67531/metadc193102/?q=train

Click on the photo to enlarge it and use the Zoom button to enlarge it further.

The covered hopper appears to be a carbon black car.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Todd Sullivan
 

Steve,

So, with that correction made (thanks), how close are the UTLX cars to the ACF design(s) in appearance?

Todd Sullivan


Steve and Barb Hile
 

Ed Hawkins if much more qualified than I to answer this question in detail.  Both the UTLX X-5 design and the ACF 105-A designs evolved.  The X-5 used the same underframe features (sills, tank saddles, etc.) as the X-3 design.  A key spotting feature is two columns of 3 rivets where the side sill meet the bolster.  In the years following WWII they expanded the use of welding to the underframe components.  The side and end sills blend in a rounded corner and there are now only 2 columns of two rivet each at the side sill bolster junction.  The metal running board almost looks like it is floating over the underframe.  This is what we see in UTLX 96720.

 

ACF high pressure cars were, likewise, initially mounted on a version of their Type 27 underframe.  Ed Hawkins’ extensive presentation on these cars, leading up to and including what became the Kadee model has been available from the Kadee web site.  When ACF moved to a welded underframe design circa 1950, it tended to resemble the UTLX welded design, with the exception that there are no rivets at the bolster to side sill junction.  These are also shown in Ed’s presentation.  There are probably other differences, including the tank saddles and, perhaps, location of the brake components.

 

So, the Kadee model represents the riveted Type 27 style underframe.  There are some things that you can do with the Atlas 11,000 gallon model underframe to more closely simulate the welded versions.  I did on in my Warren project a few years ago.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Todd Sullivan via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2020 12:40 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Carbon Black Car?

 

Steve,

So, with that correction made (thanks), how close are the UTLX cars to the ACF design(s) in appearance?

Todd Sullivan