[Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Rapido X31a PRR boxcar - roof question


Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Charlie;

 

It is almost impossible to get all cars delivered with no loss of stirrups or grabs.  Easy fix!

 

The model is beautiful!

 

As delivered and through much of service life, they were either Freight Car Color, or FCC over asphaltum.  Late in service life some got asphaltum to minimize roof leaks, but even the early 60’s rebuilts/repaints got FCC over top.

 

The FCC often wore off over time, and the paint on the roof got bled away, the asphaltum got more and more exposed, but with the general deterioration in the carbody, it was hard to tell, unless (like i), you crawled all over them, ruining your new jeans. 

 

If you are modeling cars that have considerable years on the P&L, you might weather like the attached.  Some of the old PRR guys really thought it was realistic.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charlie Duckworth
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 3:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Rapido X31a PRR boxcar - roof question

 

I picked up the Rapido PRR X31a this morning and noticed the stirrups were all loose. I glued these with some ACC glue.  One of the top grab irons was missing from the ladder to the roof walk and I assume this was also due to lack of glue. I’ll just make a replacement out of wire.   Nice model  

I’m certainly not a PRR expert but would these cars have gotten a black roof cement?  
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Bob Chaparro
 

As equipped with roof hatch covers, what commodities did these cars carry?

Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Bruce Smith
 

Bob,

 

Coal tar chips.

 

Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Reply-To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 11:24 AM
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Rapido X31a PRR boxcar - roof question

 

CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.

As equipped with roof hatch covers, what commodities did these cars carry?

Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Bob;

 

That particular car was in a small series of X31a converted from general service cars for coal tar chip service.  They had hatches added to load the chips through a hatch, not the doors.

 

There were a few of these wandering around in my day, and they looked entirely thrashed.

 

Some believed these cars were converted for flour, but I don’t buy it.  They were at the end of service life, and not good enough/tight/clean for flour service.  Besides, the one clear pic shows evidence of the tar drips down the side.

 

Tar chips were commonly used in the day for melting in either roof repair or road repair.  If a few chips missed the hatch, they gradually melted in the sun and dripped down.

 

Oh well.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 12:24 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Rapido X31a PRR boxcar - roof question

 

As equipped with roof hatch covers, what commodities did these cars carry?

Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Todd Sullivan
 

Eldon,

I thought your weathering of the X31 in coal tar chip service was right on.  Somewhere, I found a photo of adingle door car tht had weathered right down to bare rusted metal, with that bluish purple tone on much of the surface.  I started an undecorated Bowser model and painted one side in PollyScale, no lettering.  Wasn't sure how I would do the lettering later - maybe heavily sanded decals.  Anyway, thanks for the cameo on how these cars were used. thanks for

Todd Sullivan


Tim O'Connor
 


try laser printing "ghost" decals that are so light the weathering shows through them... 😁


On 10/26/2021 4:11 PM, Todd Sullivan via groups.io wrote:
Eldon,

I thought your weathering of the X31 in coal tar chip service was right on.  Somewhere, I found a photo of adingle door car tht had weathered right down to bare rusted metal, with that bluish purple tone on much of the surface.  I started an undecorated Bowser model and painted one side in PollyScale, no lettering.  Wasn't sure how I would do the lettering later - maybe heavily sanded decals.  Anyway, thanks for the cameo on how these cars were used. thanks for

Todd Sullivan

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Jim and Barbara van Gaasbeek
 

Thanks for that information.  How were the coal tar chips unloaded from the car?

 

 

Jim van Gaasbeek

Irvine, CA

 

 


Dennis Storzek
 

On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 01:30 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
try laser printing "ghost" decals that are so light the weathering shows through them... 😁
Accurail actually did something like this a number of years ago on a custom job for the Soo Line Historical & Technical Society. The prototype was a group of almost new hoppers the Soo bought second hand from the BRC. Since the paint was like new, they just painted over the lettering and re-stenciled them. Twenty years later, the original lettering was showing through.


While these were done by pad printing, the same steps could be done for art for "Ghost toner" decals. This artwork was done in Adobe Illustrator, but Corral Draw and others should have similar settings. The "fill" color was set at a transparency setting somewhat less than 100%, and Eric found a setting that gave a mottled effect. I think they turned out well.

Dennis Storzek


Tim O'Connor
 


Dennis that's outstanding and even more amazing that's it pad printed. Might be worthwhile
to buy a laser printer... 😁

Tim O'Connor


On 10/26/2021 5:56 PM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 01:30 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
try laser printing "ghost" decals that are so light the weathering shows through them... 😁
Accurail actually did something like this a number of years ago on a custom job for the Soo Line Historical & Technical Society. The prototype was a group of almost new hoppers the Soo bought second hand from the BRC. Since the paint was like new, they just painted over the lettering and re-stenciled them. Twenty years later, the original lettering was showing through.


While these were done by pad printing, the same steps could be done for art for "Ghost toner" decals. This artwork was done in Adobe Illustrator, but Corral Draw and others should have similar settings. The "fill" color was set at a transparency setting somewhat less than 100%, and Eric found a setting that gave a mottled effect. I think they turned out well.

Dennis Storzek

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Eric Hansmann
 

Todd,

 

I tint my post-decal flat coat with the car color to reduce the lettering whiteness. I add a couple drop of the car color in the paint cup with Model Master clear flat acryl. Stir well and you can see the hazy flat turn into the hazy car color. This is now my first weathering step. Here are a few hoppers that have had the lettering faded.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2021/07/03/weathering-progress/

 

In many cases, the tinted flat coat is a more subtle change. There are before and after photos in this blog post.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2017/04/21/southern-pacific-a-50-5-automobile-box-car/

 

Sadly, in April 2020 parent company Testors announced the Model Master paint line will be discontinued. If there are specific MM colors or products you like to use, stock up while you can.

 

I have a bottle of Vallejo Matt Varnish on hand to try soon. Others have used Krylon products for the flat coat, but I think those are only available in rattle cans.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Todd Sullivan via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 3:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Rapido X31a PRR boxcar - roof question

 

Eldon,

I thought your weathering of the X31 in coal tar chip service was right on.  Somewhere, I found a photo of adingle door car tht had weathered right down to bare rusted metal, with that bluish purple tone on much of the surface.  I started an undecorated Bowser model and painted one side in PollyScale, no lettering.  Wasn't sure how I would do the lettering later - maybe heavily sanded decals.  Anyway, thanks for the cameo on how these cars were used. thanks for

Todd Sullivan


Todd Sullivan
 

Hi Eric,

Thanks for your note and the links to your blogs with examples of your techniques.  I will experiment with your techniques on that PRR X31, once I finish painting it (the roof and one side were all I got done).  I am saddened, too, by Testor's decimation of good modeling paint brands.  Krylon is available only in rattle cans, AFAIK.  I used it once decades ago for some project, and found it was OK but not superior, do I no longer use it.  The strong odor was one turn-off.

I've been focused on building a group of Proto87 Stores' Fast'n'Easy turnouts at a major junction on my layout.  They look great and can be made to operate well, but they take a while to build.  I have also been installing DCC sound decoders in some diesel switchers.  None has been easy (10 pounds in a 5 pound bag), so I'm a bit discouraged.  I think the solution is to remove the entire electronics package inside the body shell and rebuild the electronics with the decoder, keep alive and speaker.  The 'DCC ready' claims were probably made when all that people were doing was installing plain DCC decoders.

Well, thanks again for some interesting ideas.  When I finish the model, I  will post the result somewhere (Plastic Freight Cars list, probably).

Todd.

On Wednesday, October 27, 2021, 10:36:59 AM CDT, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:


Todd,

 

I tint my post-decal flat coat with the car color to reduce the lettering whiteness. I add a couple drop of the car color in the paint cup with Model Master clear flat acryl. Stir well and you can see the hazy flat turn into the hazy car color. This is now my first weathering step. Here are a few hoppers that have had the lettering faded.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2021/07/03/weathering-progress/

 

In many cases, the tinted flat coat is a more subtle change. There are before and after photos in this blog post.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2017/04/21/southern-pacific-a-50-5-automobile-box-car/

 

Sadly, in April 2020 parent company Testors announced the Model Master paint line will be discontinued. If there are specific MM colors or products you like to use, stock up while you can.

 

I have a bottle of Vallejo Matt Varnish on hand to try soon. Others have used Krylon products for the flat coat, but I think those are only available in rattle cans.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Todd Sullivan via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 3:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Rapido X31a PRR boxcar - roof question

 

Eldon,

I thought your weathering of the X31 in coal tar chip service was right on.  Somewhere, I found a photo of adingle door car tht had weathered right down to bare rusted metal, with that bluish purple tone on much of the surface.  I started an undecorated Bowser model and painted one side in PollyScale, no lettering.  Wasn't sure how I would do the lettering later - maybe heavily sanded decals.  Anyway, thanks for the cameo on how these cars were used. thanks for

Todd Sullivan


Nelson Moyer
 

While searching hobby shop web sites looking for Model Master Flat Clear, I read a note on one site that Rustoleum intends to divest itself of all hobby paints, and MM is just the latest casualty, following Floquil and Poly Scale. Scalecoat is struggling to keep up with direst orders, while many hobby shops aren’t stocking Scalecoat any longer. Tru Color seems to be doing well, and I think it may be the only organic solvent based hobby paint on the market before long.

 

Nelson Moyer


Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

My pleasure.  From what I was told, they unloaded by opening a door and shoveling out what didn’t fall out.  Real high tech!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim and Barbara van Gaasbeek
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 5:27 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Rapido X31a PRR boxcar - roof question

 

Thanks for that information.  How were the coal tar chips unloaded from the car?

 

 

Jim van Gaasbeek

Irvine, CA

 

 


Eric Hansmann
 

On 10/27/2021 11:10 AM Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:


While searching hobby shop web sites looking for Model Master Flat Clear, I read a note on one site that Rustoleum intends to divest itself of all hobby paints, and MM is just the latest casualty, following Floquil and Poly Scale. Scalecoat is struggling to keep up with direst orders, while many hobby shops aren’t stocking Scalecoat any longer. Tru Color seems to be doing well, and I think it may be the only organic solvent based hobby paint on the market before long.


Nelson Moyer




Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Thanks, Todd.  I spent years before getting that car right.

 

Your car looks great!  Love the rfoof and side weathering.  Looks the way I remember them (awful).

 

I grit-blasted the decals, before application, for several cars with lettering that was weathered differently from the rest of the car.  It worked really well.  Go slooooow.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Todd Sullivan via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 4:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Rapido X31a PRR boxcar - roof question

 

Eldon,

I thought your weathering of the X31 in coal tar chip service was right on.  Somewhere, I found a photo of adingle door car tht had weathered right down to bare rusted metal, with that bluish purple tone on much of the surface.  I started an undecorated Bowser model and painted one side in PollyScale, no lettering.  Wasn't sure how I would do the lettering later - maybe heavily sanded decals.  Anyway, thanks for the cameo on how these cars were used. thanks for

Todd Sullivan


Jim and Barbara van Gaasbeek
 

But, remember, they were The Standard Railroad of the World, so that must have been the right way to do it.

 

Jim van Gaasbeek

Irvine, CA

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 11:15 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Rapido X31a PRR boxcar - roof question

 

My pleasure.  From what I was told, they unloaded by opening a door and shoveling out what didn’t fall out.  Real high tech!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim and Barbara van Gaasbeek
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 5:27 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Rapido X31a PRR boxcar - roof question

 

Thanks for that information.  How were the coal tar chips unloaded from the car?

 

 

Jim van Gaasbeek

Irvine, CA

 

 


Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

I will say that they applied the standard of what lengths they would go to, based on how much $ they’d get in return.

 

Coiled Steel?  Brand new G41 gons

 

Auto parts?  Brand new, biggest and best box cars

 

Structural steel?  Any gon will do as long as the load doesn’t fall out

 

Hide service?  Last legs box cars

 

Offal?  The worst last legs gon everrrrrr

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim and Barbara van Gaasbeek
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 2:54 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Rapido X31a PRR boxcar - roof question

 

But, remember, they were The Standard Railroad of the World, so that must have been the right way to do it.

 

Jim van Gaasbeek

Irvine, CA

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 11:15 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Rapido X31a PRR boxcar - roof question

 

My pleasure.  From what I was told, they unloaded by opening a door and shoveling out what didn’t fall out.  Real high tech!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim and Barbara van Gaasbeek
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 5:27 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Rapido X31a PRR boxcar - roof question

 

Thanks for that information.  How were the coal tar chips unloaded from the car?

 

 

Jim van Gaasbeek

Irvine, CA

 

 


Nelson Moyer
 

Yes, there is some price gouging online. I went back to Dullcote, but I don’t know how long that will be available. I’m stocking up enough to do around 35 cars, just in case.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 1:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Rapido X31a PRR boxcar - roof question

 

I found some Model Master clear flat acrylic (4636) through Amazon but it looks like the price has increased.

 

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

 


steve_wintner
 

Don't forget that brands like Tamiya, Mr. Hobby, Alclad, and Humbrol offer various model paints, which include some clear coats. I haven't used them (yet) but there should still be some choices once Rust-Oleum finishes killing Testors off. 

Elden, what grit did you use on the decals? I'd like to try that, i have an air eraser - did you use baking soda, or AluOxide grit?

Steve


Bruce Smith
 

Steve,

You can also use 300 or 600 grit sandpaper, which I have done to good effect as well to weather lettering.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL