Topics

OMI 1930-built GATC 10,000 Gal double dome tank car

Fred Jansz
 

Gents,
purchased this OMI 1930-built GATC 10,000 Gal double dome tank car recently.
However, I have no info about these cars at all regarding time span and paint schemes.
I model/collect 1950 (the year).
Any help is appreciated.
Thank you, best regards,
Fred Jansz

Bruce Smith
 

Fred,

This model appears to be OMI #3230, and has been discussed a number of times on this list. Some brief observations. First, two-compartment tank cars are rare. Two compartment insulated tank cars, such as this, are vanishingly rare. Two compartment, 10K, GATC built insulated cars? This car may represent a single car with a history that is difficult to trace. If you go back to post #135461, you will get the history of this model. Richard Hendrickson indicated that he had NEVER seen a photo of a GATC 10K insulated two-compartment tank in revenue service. That's not promising for this model. Second, if it is the model I think it is, good luck actually getting it to run (made by Cheyenne, China, not Ajin, Korea). The couplers are significantly over height and there is no easy fix for that. I am told that the trucks interfere with the underbody rigging and that the trucks are grossly too wide.

Is it correct for your era? Yes, probably.

Appropriate paint and lettering? Nobody knows (that's the good news) so maybe just use the Black Cat GATX decals, and paint it black and number it in the GATX two compartment series.

I would consider an alternative, which is to sell it and get a useful model ūüėČ

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Fred Jansz <fred@...>
Sent: Monday, November 4, 2019 3:32 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built GATC 10,000 Gal double dome tank car
 
Gents,
purchased this OMI 1930-built GATC 10,000 Gal double dome tank car recently.
However, I have no info about these cars at all regarding time span and paint schemes.
I model/collect 1950 (the year).
Any help is appreciated.
Thank you, best regards,
Fred Jansz

Tim O'Connor
 


only exact match afaik



On 11/4/2019 4:32 AM, Fred Jansz wrote:
Gents,
purchased this OMI 1930-built GATC 10,000 Gal double dome tank car recently.
However, I have no info about these cars at all regarding time span and paint schemes.
I model/collect 1950 (the year).
Any help is appreciated.
Thank you, best regards,
Fred Jansz

Attachments:


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Tim O'Connor
 

Bruce and Fred

Since Tom Marsh lived in Indiana, he may have been out one day and saw NIPX 8
a tank car owned by the Indiana Public Service utility and decided to measure it.

I suspect it had an earlier life (1930's) and the Overland brass image represents
it late in life. I agree with Bruce it's an extremely rare type of car, and the
model may even represent a unique prototype.

I've attached another much more modern insulated 2-dome photo to show there was
more than one of the type :-)




On 11/4/2019 8:56 AM, Bruce Smith wrote:
Fred,

This model appears to be OMI #3230, and has been discussed a number of times on this list. Some brief observations. First, two-compartment tank cars are rare. Two compartment insulated tank cars, such as this, are vanishingly rare. Two compartment, 10K, GATC built insulated cars? This car may represent a single car with a history that is difficult to trace. If you go back to post #135461, you will get the history of this model. Richard Hendrickson indicated that he had NEVER seen a photo of a GATC 10K insulated two-compartment tank in revenue service. That's not promising for this model. Second, if it is the model I think it is, good luck actually getting it to run (made by Cheyenne, China, not Ajin, Korea). The couplers are significantly over height and there is no easy fix for that. I am told that the trucks interfere with the underbody rigging and that the trucks are grossly too wide.

Is it correct for your era? Yes, probably.

Appropriate paint and lettering? Nobody knows (that's the good news) so maybe just use the Black Cat GATX decals, and paint it black and number it in the GATX two compartment series.

I would consider an alternative, which is to sell it and get a useful model ūüėČ

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Fred Jansz <fred@...>
Sent: Monday, November 4, 2019 3:32 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built GATC 10,000 Gal double dome tank car
 
Gents,
purchased this OMI 1930-built GATC 10,000 Gal double dome tank car recently.
However, I have no info about these cars at all regarding time span and paint schemes.
I model/collect 1950 (the year).
Any help is appreciated.
Thank you, best regards,
Fred Jansz


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Fred Jansz
 

Thanks Bruce and Tim.
Checked the historic files of this group and decided I will paint & letter for NIPX 8.
We can't ask Arnt anymore, but Jeff Lemke has a huge OMI database, maybe he comes up with more details?
regards, Fred Jansz

Bruce Smith
 

Fred,

Just to be 100% clear, NIPX 8 did not exist in the 1950s. That‚Äôs a ‚Äúpost-modern‚ÄĚ reporting mark for this list ;)

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Nov 4, 2019, at 4:08 PM, Fred Jansz <fred@...> wrote:

Thanks Bruce and Tim.
Checked the historic files of this group and decided I will paint & letter for NIPX 8.
We can't ask Arnt anymore, but Jeff Lemke has a huge OMI database, maybe he comes up with more details?
regards, Fred Jansz

al_brown03
 

The 5/1936 tank car tariff lists Northern Indiana Public Service as having three 10,000-gallon two-compartment tank cars, NIPX 6-8. They *don't* appear in the 1/1943 ORER.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

Bill Kelly
 

ÔĽŅ
NIPX 8 is listed in the 1936 Freight Tariff No. 300-A, capacities of tank cars. The owner is Northern Indiana Public Service Co. It is listed as an insulated two compartment car equipped with heater coils having a total capacity of 9901 gallons. The A compartment is 4952 gal with a 226 gal dome, the B compartment is 4949 gal with a 226 gal dome. There is also a no.6 and a no.7, both with very similar descriptions. Sure sounds like this car. Anybody have info on it after 1936 ?
Later,
Bill Kelly
 
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 22:55:12 +0000 "Bruce Smith" <smithbf@...> writes:
 
Fred,

Just to be 100% clear, NIPX 8 did not exist in the 1950s. That‚Äôs a ‚Äúpost-modern‚ÄĚ reporting mark for this list ;)

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Nov 4, 2019, at 4:08 PM, Fred Jansz <fred@...> wrote:

Thanks Bruce and Tim.
Checked the historic files of this group and decided I will paint & letter for NIPX 8.
We can't ask Arnt anymore, but Jeff Lemke has a huge OMI database, maybe he comes up with more details?
regards, Fred Jansz


al_brown03
 

The 1955 tariff 300-H lists *no* 10,000-gallon twin-compartment cars with equal-sized compartments and 4.5% domes.

AL B.

spsalso
 

There's no NIPX reporting marks in January 1939 ORER.




Ed

Edward Sutorik

Craig Wilson
 

Tom Marsh lived in downstate Indiana.  However his draftsman, Arnt Gerritsen, lived near Valparaiso in northwest Indiana.  He drew many, many projects that got produced as Overland Models and some that didn't.  Arnt had a fondness for the out-of-the-ordinary and would venture out to measure and photograph when he found one.  This particular car resided at the NIPCO plant in Michigan City Indiana.  It was a "captive car" there and no one that Arnt talked to could tell him how long it had been there or what its previously life had been.  Arnt considered it a one-of-kind-prototype, which it may indeed be.

Arnt drew projects that interested him on his own time and filed the drawings away.  Because OMI was his employer, Tom Marsh had first right of refusal on these and this tank car may have caught Tom's eye and he decided to built it.  Another one of these "private efforts" resulted in the Speedwitch AA Single Sheath boxcar kit.  The prototype cars were all retired in 1962-63 and dismantled, save for couple door-and-a-half cars what went into MofW service.  Then a fully intact single door car was discovered sitting in the DPW yard in Cadillac Michigan and being used as a storage shed.  Arnt and I got permission to go measure and photograph it.  Arnt created a beautiful set of scale drawings which went in the drawer until Ted Culotta saw them and borrowed the drawings for the Speedwitch model.

Craig Wilson

Fred Jansz
 

Thank you very much for this information Craig!
The puzzle is nearing completion.
If only I could find out what was stecilled on those domes!
Resumé: these 1930-built, 10,000 Gallon insulated double dome cars were in service as NIPX #6, 7 & 8 for the North Indiana Public Service plant in Michigan City, Indiana.
They were already out of the ORER in 1936.
#8 was possibly the only only surviver (the other 2 possibly went back into the GATX pool) at the NIPCO plant as 'captive car' and was photographed there by Arnt Gerritsen.
Who also made drawings of which Overland made a model in ca. 1991.
Pity they didn't issue a painted & letterd version, otherwise it would have been on the BT files as sample for mine.
Now the real challenge is to find the original Arnt Gerritsen picture of NIPX 8, so I can make some decals for it.
In my closets this car is a sample of a lost car, far away from home in 1950 in the Feather River Canyon.
To return home after decades, just in time for Arnt to take pictures of it around 1988.
I understand from Jeff Lemke the OMI model is from 1991.
cheers,
Fred Jansz

Tim O'Connor
 

was Arnt (Arndt?) the fellow who had those great Lake Michigan car ferry models at Naperville?

On 11/5/2019 1:21 PM, Fred Jansz wrote:
Thank you very much for this information Craig!
The puzzle is nearing completion.
If only I could find out what was stecilled on those domes!
Resumé: these 1930-built, 10,000 Gallon insulated double dome cars were in service as NIPX #6, 7 & 8 for the North Indiana Public Service plant in Michigan City, Indiana.
They were already out of the ORER in 1936.
#8 was possibly the only only surviver (the other 2 possibly went back into the GATX pool) at the NIPCO plant as 'captive car' and was photographed there by Arnt Gerritsen.
Who also made drawings of which Overland made a model in ca. 1991.
Pity they didn't issue a painted & letterd version, otherwise it would have been on the BT files as sample for mine.
Now the real challenge is to find the original Arnt Gerritsen picture of NIPX 8, so I can make some decals for it.
In my closets this car is a sample of a lost car, far away from home in 1950 in the Feather River Canyon.
To return home after decades, just in time for Arnt to take pictures of it around 1988.
I understand from Jeff Lemke the OMI model is from 1991.
cheers,
Fred Jansz
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Fred Jansz
 

I now have a better picture of the OMI NIPX 8 tankcar.
Maybe one of the tank car experts could advise about what could be stecilled on the domes?
The rest of the lettering is fairly clear/obvious.
Thank you.
regards
Fred Jansz

Todd Sullivan
 

Fred,

I can't read the lettering on the domes, but I think it probably gives the gallon capacity of the tank and (separately) the dome in 2 lines of text.

Todd Sullivan 

Craig Wilson
 

Hendrik Arnt Gerritsen . . . first met him in the early 1980's at the third-ever Ann Arbor Technical and Historical Society annual meeting and developed a long and close friendship.  He had three car ferry models on his layout at the Elberta Michigan Boat Landing.  The Arthur K Atkinson (formerly Ann Arbor No. 6) was his first effort and the most complete model.  Then came the City of Green Bay (formerly Wabash) which was "roughed in" enough to be on the layout but not fully detailed.  Finally he built a model of the GTW boat City of Milwaukee as it appeared during the time was leased to AA.  He was completing the detailing on that one at the time of his passing.  He had the hull cut to do Ann Arbor No. 3 but never went any farther with that one.  He gave a clinic on building a car ferry at the Naperville RPM and brought at least one of the boats with him.  He fretted mightily at the thought of damage occurring while it was being transported.  Interestingly, he had Jim Hediger's model of the Viking that was used on the cover of Model Railroader at one time.  That model was not quite built to scale and looked small sitting next to his other boats so it was on display sitting atop the backdrop behind Boat Landing.

As I type this I am gazing up at two car ferry "name plates" mounted on the wall.  The name plates were mounted on either side of the pilot house of the vessels.  As the boats were retired the name plates were donated locally.  Arnt tracked down the location of most of them and we made a road trip to make tracings of the originals (a couple were in Baker's Bar in Frankfort and we somehow convinced the bartender to let us take them down and trace them lying across the pool table).  Using the tracings Arnt and I each made full size replicas (right down to the countersunk mounting bolts),  He had Ann Arbor No. 3, Ann Arbor No. 5. City of Green Bay, and Viking.  I too made Ann Arbor No. 3 (currently hanging in the AARRT&HA museum room at the Durand Michigan depot), Ann Arbor No. 5, Viking and Wabash.  The City of Green Bay name plate was a monster . . . an oak plank almost 4-inches thick.  I still have my copies of the tracings stored away somewhere although there has not been a lot of clamoring by others to borrow them to make more replicas.

Craig Wilson


Bruce Smith
 

Fred,

What do you read the reweigh date as?


Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Nov 5, 2019, at 3:27 PM, Fred Jansz <fred@...> wrote:

I now have a better picture of the OMI NIPX 8 tankcar.
Maybe one of the tank car experts could advise about what could be stecilled on the domes?
The rest of the lettering is fairly clear/obvious.
Thank you.
regards
Fred Jansz <NIPX8-OMI_3230-87-88.jpg>

brianleppert@att.net
 

Here's my Overland tank car.  Friend Jerry Spoelma painted and weathered it.  I had asked for an appearance of having carried something awful and nasty.  Couldn't find those NITX reporting marks in any of my ORERs so guessed the best I could.  The model, OMI-3230, was built by Ajin.

I have doubts about the accuracy of some of Overland's tank cars.  For instance, three of their earliest tank imports were ACF single, double and triple dome cars.  The label on my single dome model says 8,000 gallon, but it is the same size as InterMountain's 10,000 gallon.  All three models used the same underframe and tank size.  I suspect the double and triple dome tanks are bogus.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV

Tim O'Connor
 


Nice model. :-)

Folks discussed those Overland cars years ago on STMFC and elsewhere. The conclusion
has always been that Marsh just "made up" those two particular cars. They would have been
ok if he'd used SMALLER domes. Unlike the 3230 model we've been talking about - which does
have a prototype, if an exceptionally uncommon one - those two look kinda ridiculous.

Tim O'Connor



On 11/5/2019 7:40 PM, brianleppert@... wrote:
Here's my Overland tank car.  Friend Jerry Spoelma painted and weathered it.  I had asked for an appearance of having carried something awful and nasty.  Couldn't find those NITX reporting marks in any of my ORERs so guessed the best I could.  The model, OMI-3230, was built by Ajin.

I have doubts about the accuracy of some of Overland's tank cars.  For instance, three of their earliest tank imports were ACF single, double and triple dome cars.  The label on my single dome model says 8,000 gallon, but it is the same size as InterMountain's 10,000 gallon.  All three models used the same underframe and tank size.  I suspect the double and triple dome tanks are bogus.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

James SANDIFER
 

I purchased one of these two dome Overland cars and wrote Richard Hendrickson about it. His reply was:

"Steve, the genesis of this Overland model is that when Arndt Gerritsen was doing much of Overland’s prototype research and product development, he found a car bearing used
for storage which still had its reporting marks and numbers: NIPX 8. He photographed and measured the car and made drawings of it. He then contacted me for more prototype information, but I was unable to help much because the latest (1967) ORER I have did not have an entry for NIPX. My best guess is that the car had been owned by the North American Tank Line, which had a number of other reporting marks in the NI?X series. But that’s only a guess, and the NATX entries in the ORERs do not list gallonage or other data which might help in tracking it down.

Once I saw the drawings, however, I recognized that the car was essentially a two compartment version of General American’s 10K gal. insulated single compartment type 30s, and a photo in my collection prompted Overland’s model of the CDLX Western Asphalt single compartment car.

But that doesn‚Äôt solve your problem. Years later, I got a poor quality photo that showed a GATX insulated two compartment Type 30, and if I owned that model I‚Äôd paint and letter it to correspond with the photo. I think the car in the photo may have been an 8K gallon car, but I also think it‚Äôs as close as you‚Äôre going to get to finding a prototype for that model in your era. Al Ferguson‚Äôs ‚ÄúBlack Cat‚ÄĚ GATX decal set in black would do the job very nicely. FWIW, that photo is attached.

Paint is Light gray tank, black underframe and trucks. Some GATX cars in bulk wine service were painted aluminum, but most insulated cars that weren’t black were light gray, and that’s what appears to be the color of the car in the photo.


J. Stephen Sandifer

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 12:59 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built GATC 10,000 Gal double dome tank car


was Arnt (Arndt?) the fellow who had those great Lake Michigan car ferry models at Naperville?


On 11/5/2019 1:21 PM, Fred Jansz wrote:
Thank you very much for this information Craig!
The puzzle is nearing completion.
If only I could find out what was stecilled on those domes!
Resumé: these 1930-built, 10,000 Gallon insulated double dome cars
were in service as NIPX #6, 7 & 8 for the North Indiana Public Service
plant in Michigan City, Indiana.
They were already out of the ORER in 1936.
#8 was possibly the only only surviver (the other 2 possibly went back
into the GATX pool) at the NIPCO plant as 'captive car' and was
photographed there by Arnt Gerritsen.
Who also made drawings of which Overland made a model in ca. 1991.
Pity they didn't issue a painted & letterd version, otherwise it would
have been on the BT files as sample for mine.
Now the real challenge is to find the original Arnt Gerritsen picture
of NIPX 8, so I can make some decals for it.
In my closets this car is a sample of a lost car, far away from home
in 1950 in the Feather River Canyon.
To return home after decades, just in time for Arnt to take pictures
of it around 1988.
I understand from Jeff Lemke the OMI model is from 1991.
cheers,
Fred Jansz

--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*