Topics

Oregon short line stock cars

Brad Andonian
 

Seeking any images or confirmation that 36 ‘ stock cars existed in the 1930/40 time period 

Many thanks
Brad Andonian 



Ray Breyer
 

>>Seeking any images or confirmation that 36 ‘ stock cars existed in the 1930/40 time period 
>>Brad Andonian 


Just crack open a few ORERS, and you'll have all the evidence you'll ever need.

12/1930 ORER:
OSL - 2887
OWR&N - 544
LA&SL - 191
UP - 2733
(100% of the stock car fleet were under 40' long)

1/1945 ORER:
OSL - 2034 (and 370 40-foot)
OWR&N - 464
LA&SL - 142
UP - 2287 (and 556 40-foot)
(84% of the stock fleet were short cars)

1/1955 ORER:
OSL 6 (and 334 40-foot)
OWR&N - 1
UP - 929 (and 2069 40-foot)
(28% of the stock fleet were short cars)

1/1959 ORER:
UP - 840 (and 2683 40-foot)
(24% of the stock car fleet were short cars)


Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


Charlie Vlk
 

Brad-

CB&Q SM16 stock cars were 36’ and lasted well into the BN era (not renumbered AFAIK) and even past the movement of livestock being used to carry ties.   I don’t have the stats to back this up but as I recall they were more prevalent on the East End (aka racetrack)  than the 40’ Q stock cars and certainly the stretched Mathers.

Charlie Vlk

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ray Breyer via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 9:05 AM
To: STMFC <main@realstmfc.groups.io>; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oregon short line stock cars

 

>>Seeking any images or confirmation that 36 ‘ stock cars existed in the 1930/40 time period 

>>Brad Andonian 


Just crack open a few ORERS, and you'll have all the evidence you'll ever need.


12/1930 ORER:

OSL - 2887

OWR&N - 544

LA&SL - 191

UP - 2733

(100% of the stock car fleet were under 40' long)

 

1/1945 ORER:

OSL - 2034 (and 370 40-foot)

OWR&N - 464

LA&SL - 142

UP - 2287 (and 556 40-foot)

(84% of the stock fleet were short cars)

 

1/1955 ORER:

OSL 6 (and 334 40-foot)

OWR&N - 1

UP - 929 (and 2069 40-foot)

(28% of the stock fleet were short cars)

 

1/1959 ORER:

UP - 840 (and 2683 40-foot)

(24% of the stock car fleet were short cars)

 

 

Ray Breyer

Elgin, IL

Allan Smith
 

Oregon Short Line 36' Stock Cars

I have a file  Diagrams Union Pacific Freight Cars 1926 Oregon Short Line Folio 1500 That has diagrams of the S-30 36' OSL stock Cars. I got it off the internet But can't now access it. If anyone can find that file, it will give you the drawings for the cars you requested.

Al Smith
Sonora CA

On Friday, September 6, 2019, 10:59:12 AM PDT, Charlie Vlk <cvlk@...> wrote:


Brad-

CB&Q SM16 stock cars were 36’ and lasted well into the BN era (not renumbered AFAIK) and even past the movement of livestock being used to carry ties.   I don’t have the stats to back this up but as I recall they were more prevalent on the East End (aka racetrack)  than the 40’ Q stock cars and certainly the stretched Mathers.

Charlie Vlk

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ray Breyer via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 9:05 AM
To: STMFC <main@realstmfc.groups.io>; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oregon short line stock cars

 

>>Seeking any images or confirmation that 36 ‘ stock cars existed in the 1930/40 time period 

>>Brad Andonian 


Just crack open a few ORERS, and you'll have all the evidence you'll ever need.


12/1930 ORER:

OSL - 2887

OWR&N - 544

LA&SL - 191

UP - 2733

(100% of the stock car fleet were under 40' long)

 

1/1945 ORER:

OSL - 2034 (and 370 40-foot)

OWR&N - 464

LA&SL - 142

UP - 2287 (and 556 40-foot)

(84% of the stock fleet were short cars)

 

1/1955 ORER:

OSL 6 (and 334 40-foot)

OWR&N - 1

UP - 929 (and 2069 40-foot)

(28% of the stock fleet were short cars)

 

1/1959 ORER:

UP - 840 (and 2683 40-foot)

(24% of the stock car fleet were short cars)

 

 

Ray Breyer

Elgin, IL

Douglas Harding
 

Brad certain roads preferred 36’ cars up to the end of livestock movements. Attached is a spreadsheet I created some time back that shows stockcars for the CNW, CGW, Omaha, & M&StL showing the years 1941, 1943, 1953 and 1960. It includes their length. Noticed the dominance of 36’ cars for the CNW and Omaha roads. I think you will see similar preference for 36’ cars on the CB&Q and MILW. As suggested an ORER will quickly show the information you seek. I’m not at home, so not able to access the copies I have.

 

Attached are a few photos.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brad Andonian via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2019 11:06 PM
To: STMFC
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Oregon short line stock cars

 

Seeking any images or confirmation that 36 ‘ stock cars existed in the 1930/40 time period 

 

Many thanks

Brad Andonian 


Garth Groff
 

Doug,

It occurs to me that a preference and survival factor for 36' or 37' foot stock cars might have been to fit existing multiple loading/unloading chutes at major stock yards, packing plants, or railroad-owned rest stations. Rebuilding chutes and pens to fit 40' cars would have been an expense both railroads and customers would have wanted to avoid, particularly in the face of increasing truck competition by the 1950s. After WWII, new or modernized plants might have been designed with 40' cars in mind.
 
Of course some roads had both 37' and 40' cars, and some even longer by the 1950s (B&O, PRR and NKP come to mind). Length may have depended greatly on customer needs, including the type of livestock shipped. The WP dealt with a lot of pig shipments on a fixed route, and double-deck 37' cars worked fine, yet they also had both 37' and 40' single-deck cars chiefly for cattle. It was the 37' double-deck pig cars that lasted the longest. The D&RGW rebuilt 36' boxcars into stock cars up into the war years, but their new/rebuilt post-war cars were 40'. The majority of both lengths were double-decked to carry sheep (especially) or calves, though some classes had lower decks with enough head room for full-grown cows.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 9/7/2019 1:43 AM, Douglas Harding wrote:

Brad certain roads preferred 36’ cars up to the end of livestock movements. Attached is a spreadsheet I created some time back that shows stockcars for the CNW, CGW, Omaha, & M&StL showing the years 1941, 1943, 1953 and 1960. It includes their length. Noticed the dominance of 36’ cars for the CNW and Omaha roads. I think you will see similar preference for 36’ cars on the CB&Q and MILW. As suggested an ORER will quickly show the information you seek. I’m not at home, so not able to access the copies I have.

 

Attached are a few photos.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brad Andonian via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2019 11:06 PM
To: STMFC
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Oregon short line stock cars

 

Seeking any images or confirmation that 36 ‘ stock cars existed in the 1930/40 time period 

 

Many thanks

Brad Andonian 



William Hirt
 

To add to Doug's info, this is a roster of CB&Q 36' stock cars as of January 1, 1966. As they were all built in the mid-late 1920s, they existed in the 1939/40 time frame and as Charlie Vlk noted well into the BN era.

55950-56199 SM. 36' Stock Car. Steel Underframe. Class SM-18-A. Built 1928 at CB&Q Galesburg. Series #55950-56199.
56200-56699 SM. 36' Stock Car. Steel Underframe. Class SM-18-A. Built 1928 at CB&Q Galesburg. Series #56200-56699. 
56700-56924 SM. 36' Stock Car. Steel Underframe. Class SM-18. Built 1927 at CB&Q Galesburg. Series #56700-56924. 200 cars leased to FW&DC in 1943 (series #56700-57447) and renumbered FW&DC Series #3001-3200.
56925-56949 SM. 36' Stock Car. Steel Underframe. Class SM-18. Built 1926 at CB&Q Aurora. Series #56925-56949. 200 cars leased to FW&DC in 1943 (series #56700-57447) and renumbered FW&DC Series #3001-3200.
56950-57449 SM. 36' Stock Car. Steel Underframe. Class SM-18. Built 1926 at CB&Q Aurora. Series #56950-57449. 200 cars leased to FW&DC in 1943 (series #56700-57447) and renumbered FW&DC Series #3001-3200.
58000-58999 SM. 36' Stock Car. Steel Underframe. Class SM-16. Built 1924 at CB&Q Streator. Series #58000-58999. Some cars this series equipped with Double Deck. Photo in Freight Cars of the 40's and 50's on p82 (car 58214D). Photo in Freight Car Color Portfolio Book 1 (Paul Winters 1960-1980) on p42 (car 58560D).
59000-59499 SM. 36' Stock Car. Steel Underframe. Class SM-16. Built 1922 by ACF. Series #59000-59499.

On live stock, I  recently received my copy of Santa Fe Livestock Operations by Steve Sandifer. If you have any interest at all in livestock operations, you want a copy of this book. Numerous stories and info from the Santa Fe files that is applicable to a number of railroads modeling stock operations.

Bill Hirt

On 9/7/2019 12:43 AM, Douglas Harding wrote:

Brad certain roads preferred 36’ cars up to the end of livestock movements. Attached is a spreadsheet I created some time back that shows stockcars for the CNW, CGW, Omaha, & M&StL showing the years 1941, 1943, 1953 and 1960. It includes their length. Noticed the dominance of 36’ cars for the CNW and Omaha roads. I think you will see similar preference for 36’ cars on the CB&Q and MILW. As suggested an ORER will quickly show the information you seek. I’m not at home, so not able to access the copies I have.

 

Attached are a few photos.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

_._,_._,_

Douglas Harding
 

OSL 1926 Freight Car diagrams can be found at https://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/Union-Pacific-Equip-Diagrams/OSL-1926-Freight-Cars/i-krT4w2W

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Saturday, September 7, 2019 12:43 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oregon short line stock cars

 

Brad certain roads preferred 36’ cars up to the end of livestock movements. Attached is a spreadsheet I created some time back that shows stockcars for the CNW, CGW, Omaha, & M&StL showing the years 1941, 1943, 1953 and 1960. It includes their length. Noticed the dominance of 36’ cars for the CNW and Omaha roads. I think you will see similar preference for 36’ cars on the CB&Q and MILW. As suggested an ORER will quickly show the information you seek. I’m not at home, so not able to access the copies I have.

 

Attached are a few photos.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brad Andonian via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2019 11:06 PM
To: STMFC
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Oregon short line stock cars

 

Seeking any images or confirmation that 36 ‘ stock cars existed in the 1930/40 time period 

 

Many thanks

Brad Andonian 

Douglas Harding
 

Garth you are correct. Many livestock handling facilities were originally set for 36’ cars. But as they were built of wood, which deteriorates when exposed to corrosive elements like urine, pens and chutes were repaired and even rebuilt, and 40 cars could be accommodated. Every road I cited did have 40’ cars, especially as they moved to all steel cars. The CB&Q also had 50’ Mather stockcars after the time of this list. The UP had 60’ cars. And then there was NP’s 86’ pig palace cars.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Garth Groff
Sent: Saturday, September 7, 2019 3:52 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oregon short line stock cars

 

Doug,

It occurs to me that a preference and survival factor for 36' or 37' foot stock cars might have been to fit existing multiple loading/unloading chutes at major stock yards, packing plants, or railroad-owned rest stations. Rebuilding chutes and pens to fit 40' cars would have been an expense both railroads and customers would have wanted to avoid, particularly in the face of increasing truck competition by the 1950s. After WWII, new or modernized plants might have been designed with 40' cars in mind.
 
Of course some roads had both 37' and 40' cars, and some even longer by the 1950s (B&O, PRR and NKP come to mind). Length may have depended greatly on customer needs, including the type of livestock shipped. The WP dealt with a lot of pig shipments on a fixed route, and double-deck 37' cars worked fine, yet they also had both 37' and 40' single-deck cars chiefly for cattle. It was the 37' double-deck pig cars that lasted the longest. The D&RGW rebuilt 36' boxcars into stock cars up into the war years, but their new/rebuilt post-war cars were 40'. The majority of both lengths were double-decked to carry sheep (especially) or calves, though some classes had lower decks with enough head room for full-grown cows.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 9/7/2019 1:43 AM, Douglas Harding wrote:

Brad certain roads preferred 36’ cars up to the end of livestock movements. Attached is a spreadsheet I created some time back that shows stockcars for the CNW, CGW, Omaha, & M&StL showing the years 1941, 1943, 1953 and 1960. It includes their length. Noticed the dominance of 36’ cars for the CNW and Omaha roads. I think you will see similar preference for 36’ cars on the CB&Q and MILW. As suggested an ORER will quickly show the information you seek. I’m not at home, so not able to access the copies I have.

 

Attached are a few photos.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brad Andonian via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2019 11:06 PM
To: STMFC
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Oregon short line stock cars

 

Seeking any images or confirmation that 36 ‘ stock cars existed in the 1930/40 time period 

 

Many thanks

Brad Andonian 



 

Steve and Barb Hile
 

For what it might be worth, the Rock Island moved to 40 foot stock cars beginning with the purchase of 250 from the Ryan Car Company in 1930 (the new Rocket Express kit in HO.)  They followed that by rebuilding 40 foot single sheathed boxcars of the B1 and B2 classes.  Westerfield offers multiple versions of these B2 conversions.  The RI did not have a very large fleet of stock cars as a percentage of its fleet, like about 8% in 1930 and down to about 3% by 1950.  There is ample photo evidence that RI trains often included stock cars from other railroads in our late steam and transition eras.
 
Steve Hile



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2019 8:58 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oregon short line stock cars

Garth you are correct. Many livestock handling facilities were originally set for 36’ cars. But as they were built of wood, which deteriorates when exposed to corrosive elements like urine, pens and chutes were repaired and even rebuilt, and 40 cars could be accommodated. Every road I cited did have 40’ cars, especially as they moved to all steel cars. The CB&Q also had 50’ Mather stockcars after the time of this list. The UP had 60’ cars. And then there was NP’s 86’ pig palace cars.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Garth Groff
Sent: Saturday, September 7, 2019 3:52 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oregon short line stock cars

 

Doug,

It occurs to me that a preference and survival factor for 36' or 37' foot stock cars might have been to fit existing multiple loading/unloading chutes at major stock yards, packing plants, or railroad-owned rest stations. Rebuilding chutes and pens to fit 40' cars would have been an expense both railroads and customers would have wanted to avoid, particularly in the face of increasing truck competition by the 1950s. After WWII, new or modernized plants might have been designed with 40' cars in mind.
 
Of course some roads had both 37' and 40' cars, and some even longer by the 1950s (B&O, PRR and NKP come to mind). Length may have depended greatly on customer needs, including the type of livestock shipped. The WP dealt with a lot of pig shipments on a fixed route, and double-deck 37' cars worked fine, yet they also had both 37' and 40' single-deck cars chiefly for cattle. It was the 37' double-deck pig cars that lasted the longest. The D&RGW rebuilt 36' boxcars into stock cars up into the war years, but their new/rebuilt post-war cars were 40'. The majority of both lengths were double-decked to carry sheep (especially) or calves, though some classes had lower decks with enough head room for full-grown cows.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 9/7/2019 1:43 AM, Douglas Harding wrote:

Brad certain roads preferred 36’ cars up to the end of livestock movements. Attached is a spreadsheet I created some time back that shows stockcars for the CNW, CGW, Omaha, & M&StL showing the years 1941, 1943, 1953 and 1960. It includes their length. Noticed the dominance of 36’ cars for the CNW and Omaha roads. I think you will see similar preference for 36’ cars on the CB&Q and MILW. As suggested an ORER will quickly show the information you seek. I’m not at home, so not able to access the copies I have.

 

Attached are a few photos.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brad Andonian via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2019 11:06 PM
To: STMFC
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Oregon short line stock cars

 

Seeking any images or confirmation that 36 ‘ stock cars existed in the 1930/40 time period 

 

Many thanks

Brad Andonian 



 

mopacfirst
 

For a short time, the UPHS offered a kit for the S-40-6, which I assumed when I ordered them were 40' cars.  In fact, they were 36', and the kit is an interesting mix of Red Caboose parts from the SP stock car kit they made plus, apparently, some new tooling.  I appealed on this list for a photo, got one, for which I'm grateful, and built the cars.  It's a bit fussy construction with all those grab irons, but turned out well.

I paint the inside surfaces of stock car kits, if not already painted, with Scalecoat Tie Brown color (in the rattle can).  I was concerned with there not being enough room for weight, so I added some lead sheet under the upper deck since there was already a lip around the edge of the molding.  That plus some underbody weight in the centersill made the cars quite well within the proper weight range (as I recall, at least 4 oz.).

Ron Merrick

Donald B. Valentine
 

Hi Doug,

     The CB&Q stock car with the double decked load of sheep is a cocoker given the full height IC car behind it and a
similar car to the right. Such photos really illustrate the diminutive size of such cars. Thanks for posting it.

Cordially, Don Valentine

 

Charlie Vlk
 

All-

Drawings for the CB&Q 36 Ft car appeared in Mainline Modeler.   HO brass cars and resin kits have been available in the past.   If my 3D CAD buddy ever gets his printers going I’ll have cars (at least for myself) in N Scale as he did Solidworks drawings for them some time ago…the test prints done on a Prefactory machine were exquisite with the entire car, roofwalks, brake wheel and fully detailed separated structural member underframe cast in one piece.   It was beautiful but impractical as there was no provision for mounting operating trucks and couplers.   The file has since been modified to make the body and a simplified underframe as separate castings.   The SM16 is one of the signature cars of the CB&Q….built on recycled National Steel Dump Car underframes in keeping with the Q’s “thriftiness”….

Charlie Vlk

William Hirt
 

To close the circle, here is a roster of CB&Q 40' Stock Cars:

52000-52149 SM. 40' 6" Stock Car. Class SM-19. Built 1937-38 at CB&Q Galesburg. Series #52000-52149. Photo in CB&Q Color Guide on p73.
52500-52699 SM. 40' 6" Stock Car. Class SM-19A. Built 1944-45 by CB&Q Havelock. Steel Roofs. Series #52500-52699. 46 cars in series equipped with double decks and AAR Classified SF. Photos in CB&Q Color Guide on p73. 
52700-53199 SM. 40' 6" Stock Car. Class SM-19B. Built 1949 by CB&Q Havelock. Steel Roofs and Ends. Series #52700-53199. 54 cars in series equipped with double decks and AAR Classified SF. Photos in CB&Q Color Guide on p74. 

By the late 1950's the CB&Q was already moving on a regular basis Illinois hogs to Tobin Packing in Albany and Rochester NY on the NYC. I have a copy of a presentation Steve Holding did at the Burlington Historical Society meet a few years ago that also showed D&RGW and UP cars being used on the Q for loading hogs in this service.

In 2007, Russ Strodtz posted some switch lists of CB&Q connection cars to the IHB at Congress Park IL. Doug Harding was part of this discussion on the Railway Bull Shippers list. Here are the ones with Hogs:

July 25, 1959
LW68  503-502-514-506  [SD24's]  I/C  01:00 a.m. [Lincoln West]
CB&Q     56752  Hogs      NYC

62  130-166-126  [F3 AB-F7 B-F3 BA] I/C 05:10 a.m. [A Denver train]
    SLSX    71167   Hogs            NYC
    SLSX    71427   Hogs            NYC

82   114AB-135BA  [FT AB-F3 BA]  I/C  11:50 a.m. [A Dayton's Bluff train]
    [Most of setout from South St Paul]
    CB&Q    52508   Hogs       MC
    CB&Q    52138   Hogs       MC
    CB&Q    52771   Hogs       MC
    CB&Q    52716   Hogs       MC

1stLC   116DC-120CD  [F3 ABBA]  I/C  12:20 p.m. [A Omaha train but this consist looks like only Kansas City and St Joseph traffic which would have come into Galesburg on #70]
    CB&Q  56415    Hogs       NYC
    CB&Q  58711    Hogs       NYC
    CB&Q  56635    Hogs       NYC
    CB&Q   56619   Hogs       NYC
    CB&Q   59421   Hogs       NYC
    CB&Q   58708   Hogs       NYC
    CB&Q   58626   Hogs       NYC

Extra East 154ABC [F2A-FTBA] I/C  08:10 p.m.
    CB&Q 56752   Hogs           Not shown, probably NYC

As Russ wrote, that's all.

Lots of Q 36' stock cars moving hogs just on this one day.

Bill Hirt


On 9/7/2019 9:39 AM, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi Doug,

     The CB&Q stock car with the double decked load of sheep is a cocoker given the full height IC car behind it and a
similar car to the right. Such photos really illustrate the diminutive size of such cars. Thanks for posting it.

Cordially, Don Valentine

 
._,_