Topics

Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931


Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
I've been looking over this image entitled "Oscar Mayer Freight Car" taken in 1931
 
 
The billboard lettering is very cool. However, as I spend more time looking at the image, I suspect this might be a case of 1931 'photoshop' alteration.
 
Is this a real car with real billboard lettering, or was this image altered? Opinions?
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 05:40 AM, Claus Schlund \(HGM\) wrote:
 
The billboard lettering is very cool. However, as I spend more time looking at the image, I suspect this might be a case of 1931 'photoshop' alteration.
I vote for a retouched photo. While the web image resolution isn't very high, we should be able to see the shadow of the door locking bar where it crosses the M, and I sure don't.

Dennis Storzek


Douglas Harding
 

No dimensional data, no reporting marks, no other required lettering for interchange service. Very likely a photo or negative that had lettering applied. Was a common technique for advertising photos.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


akerboomk
 

Also note the COMPLETE lack of other lettering:

-       Reporting marks

-       Weights

-       Dimensions

-       Etc.

 

“As is”, would it even be acceptable for interchange service?

 

Although it could have been a publicity stunt (parked by the factory or whatever)

 

Ken


--
Ken Akerboom


Peter Ness
 

Photoshop may be too harsh a term.  I suspect it is what I call an “advertising print”.  Somewhere in my collection I have a photo of a string of Boston & Maine boxcars lettered “B&M Baked Beans Boston, Mass.” in white lettering across the boxcars.  The lettering looks like white-out, but I am sure back in the 20’s-40’s there was some other lettering medium used.  The lettered photo would have been for use in a print ad or brochure to publicize either Oscar Mayer, or Oscar Mayers’ use of that manufacturers’ freight car, or perhaps even a new plant opening.

 

If it’s the “original” lettered print, the white lettering will be like white-out, and I suspect it would be cracked with age.  This is probably a duplicate print of the original hand-lettered photo. Having an original white-lettered photo is a little cool, having a duplicate maybe not so much – my opinion only.

 

Stay healthy,

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 8:40 AM
To: STMFC <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

 

Hi List Members,

 

I've been looking over this image entitled "Oscar Mayer Freight Car" taken in 1931

 

 

The billboard lettering is very cool. However, as I spend more time looking at the image, I suspect this might be a case of 1931 'photoshop' alteration.

 

Is this a real car with real billboard lettering, or was this image altered? Opinions?

 

Enjoy!

 

Claus Schlund

 


spsalso
 

The picture is awfully small.  

The car may have been temporarily lettered with whitewash, previous to its final lettering (with data).

The shadow of the latch bar, and other "flaws" could have been touched up on the negative (in black ink) or on a print.

It also looks like the print may have been dodged around the lettering.  May.

I also see some streaking downwards from the letters.  I doubt that feature would have been added if the lettering was done on film or paper.

The background "color" on the car looks a bit mottled.  Interesting.

It'd sure be nice to see that picture bigger!


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Douglas Harding
 

To cite an example of a retouched photo. Attached is a photo scanned from a company brochure published by the Decker & Sons Meat Company, circa 1930. The photo shows the loading area, but what stands out is the large Decker lettering on the side of the reefer. However if you look close, you will see reporting marks on the end of the car indicating it is a HyGrade reefer, a Mather reefer. Someone doctored the photo for the brochure, painting out the HyGrade lettering and inking in the large Decker lettering. For what its worth I have yet to see a photo of actual Decker reefer with that kind of lettering.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding via groups.io
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 8:08 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

 

No dimensional data, no reporting marks, no other required lettering for interchange service. Very likely a photo or negative that had lettering applied. Was a common technique for advertising photos.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


spsalso
 

I keep looking at that lettering job, and keep finding more flubs.  Ain't as easy as it looks.  Tried it once.

I LOVE Photoshop.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 07:47 AM, Douglas Harding wrote:

To cite an example of a retouched photo. Attached is a photo scanned from a company brochure published by the Decker & Sons Meat Company, circa 1930. The photo shows the loading area, but what stands out is the large Decker lettering on the side of the reefer. However if you look close, you will see reporting marks on the end of the car indicating it is a HyGrade reefer, a Mather reefer. Someone doctored the photo for the brochure, painting out the HyGrade lettering and inking in the large Decker lettering. For what its worth I have yet to see a photo of actual Decker reefer with that kind of lettering.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding via groups.io
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 8:08 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

 

No dimensional data, no reporting marks, no other required lettering for interchange service. Very likely a photo or negative that had lettering applied. Was a common technique for advertising photos.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

 


Jack Mullen
 

The same lettering scheme is seen on OMRX 5004, on p.128 of Hendrickson and Kaminski's billboard reefer book. That is a builders photo of a General American leased reefer, built October 1931. It shows full dimensional data in black, and the billboard lettering in white, with some adjustments of placement compared to the McVicar photo referenced in the OP.
The retouched McVicar photo is dated August 4 1931. I suggest it may have been prepared to illustrate the lettering Oscar Mayer wanted on the new cars it was leasing.
I agree that the McVicar photo is retouched. The streaked or patchy variations in tone on the car siding are evidence of the original lettering removed by retouching, I believe.

Jack Mullen


Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Doug,
 
Certainly a nice image, good sleuthing that you spotted the retouching of the photo.
 
I like the Decker tank car, reporting marks might be JEDX 23. According to my Dec 1930 ORER, Decker has the following series of tank cars: JEDX 20-37 and JEDX 40-92
 
I also like the view of the Decker reefer on the far end of the image, looks like DMRX 2873, Decker had the following series of reefers: DMRX 2520-2544 and DMRX 2800-2904
 
Thanks
 
Claus Schlund
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2020 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

To cite an example of a retouched photo. Attached is a photo scanned from a company brochure published by the Decker & Sons Meat Company, circa 1930. The photo shows the loading area, but what stands out is the large Decker lettering on the side of the reefer. However if you look close, you will see reporting marks on the end of the car indicating it is a HyGrade reefer, a Mather reefer. Someone doctored the photo for the brochure, painting out the HyGrade lettering and inking in the large Decker lettering. For what its worth I have yet to see a photo of actual Decker reefer with that kind of lettering.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding via groups.io
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 8:08 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

 

No dimensional data, no reporting marks, no other required lettering for interchange service. Very likely a photo or negative that had lettering applied. Was a common technique for advertising photos.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Charlie Vlk
 

Jack and All-

 

Some retouched photos from “back in the day” are obvious but some were so skillfully done they are hard to detect.


I have a couple that I actually thought about destroying because if they got out they might be used by some importer to make a production plastic model from:

 

One of them is a CB&Q NE-12 (streamlined cupola waycar, the prototype that Bachmann has finally released in slightly improved form in full Burlington lettering and paint) that has bigger “picture windows” airbrushed in.

The other was a proposed slogan to supplement the “Everywhere West / Way of the Zephyrs” script one.

 

Retouched art was widely used for advertising purposes.  And, of course, was used in Builder’s Record Photos to remove background and in some cases foreground “clutter” to more clearly document the subject freight car.

 

Using retouching for proposed paint schemes is probably not that unusual as they were probably a better vehicle for review by non-engineering types than blueprints, especially since very few presentation-level drawings (similar to what we like to see in Model Railroad magazines or books) of cars were prepared by carbuilders or railroads.

 

Charlie Vlk

 

 

I agree that the McVicar photo is retouched. The streaked or patchy variations in tone on the car siding are evidence of the original lettering removed by retouching, I believe.

 


Tony Thompson
 

     Speaking of modified builder photos -- I always enjoyed photos from the latter years at Pacific Car & Foundry, when builder photos were taken in a dirt-surfaced yard, then a negative of a patch of lawn was stripped into the foreground, right up to the rail the car was on.

Tony Thompson




spsalso
 

Sure is odd that the streaks caused by removing the original lettering for retouching just happen to coincide with the new lettering.

What are the odds?



Ed

Edward Sutorik


Douglas Harding
 

Claus thank you. You are correct that is a Decker tank car, used for various fats, like lard, and for blood and hog urine. The tank cars were gone by the early 30s, replaced by leased units.


You cite two groups of Decker reefers, there were others.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 1:32 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

 

Hi Doug,

 

Certainly a nice image, good sleuthing that you spotted the retouching of the photo.

 

I like the Decker tank car, reporting marks might be JEDX 23. According to my Dec 1930 ORER, Decker has the following series of tank cars: JEDX 20-37 and JEDX 40-92

 

I also like the view of the Decker reefer on the far end of the image, looks like DMRX 2873, Decker had the following series of reefers: DMRX 2520-2544 and DMRX 2800-2904

 

Thanks

 

Claus Schlund

 

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, August 03, 2020 10:47 AM

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

 

To cite an example of a retouched photo. Attached is a photo scanned from a company brochure published by the Decker & Sons Meat Company, circa 1930. The photo shows the loading area, but what stands out is the large Decker lettering on the side of the reefer. However if you look close, you will see reporting marks on the end of the car indicating it is a HyGrade reefer, a Mather reefer. Someone doctored the photo for the brochure, painting out the HyGrade lettering and inking in the large Decker lettering. For what its worth I have yet to see a photo of actual Decker reefer with that kind of lettering.

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding via groups.io
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 8:08 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

 

No dimensional data, no reporting marks, no other required lettering for interchange service. Very likely a photo or negative that had lettering applied. Was a common technique for advertising photos.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Robert kirkham
 

OK, much as wonder if I will regret it, I have to ask: what was the market for blood, and what was the market for hogs urine?  I have packing plants on the line I model, bt have no insight about this tank car traffic.

Rob Kirkham

On Aug 3, 2020, at 4:31 PM, Douglas Harding <iowacentralrr@...> wrote:

Claus thank you. You are correct that is a Decker tank car, used for various fats, like lard, and for blood and hog urine. The tank cars were gone by the early 30s, replaced by leased units.

You cite two groups of Decker reefers, there were others.
 


Douglas Harding
 

Oh you will regret. A prime use for hog urine was cleaning lanolin from raw wool. Think of that the next time you wear a wool sweater. It is also used in fertilizer.

 

Most blood was dried before shipping as blood is very corrosive to steel. Whole blood has to be shipped in glass lined tank cars. Blood was a rich source of protein used in animal feeds as well as in blood meal used as a fertilizer. Up to 30% is used in human consumption products, ie blood sausage, black pudding, baked goods, etc. Medicine and pharmaceuticals are another use.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert kirkham
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 6:40 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

 

OK, much as wonder if I will regret it, I have to ask: what was the market for blood, and what was the market for hogs urine?  I have packing plants on the line I model, bt have no insight about this tank car traffic.

 

Rob Kirkham

 

On Aug 3, 2020, at 4:31 PM, Douglas Harding <iowacentralrr@...> wrote:

 

Claus thank you. You are correct that is a Decker tank car, used for various fats, like lard, and for blood and hog urine. The tank cars were gone by the early 30s, replaced by leased units.


You cite two groups of Decker reefers, there were others.

 

 


Kenneth Montero
 

Another good reason to wash/dry clean newly purchased wool clothing before wearing it.

Ken Montreo

On 08/03/2020 8:35 PM Douglas Harding <iowacentralrr@...> wrote:


Oh you will regret. A prime use for hog urine was cleaning lanolin from raw wool. Think of that the next time you wear a wool sweater. It is also used in fertilizer.


Most blood was dried before shipping as blood is very corrosive to steel. Whole blood has to be shipped in glass lined tank cars. Blood was a rich source of protein used in animal feeds as well as in blood meal used as a fertilizer. Up to 30% is used in human consumption products, ie blood sausage, black pudding, baked goods, etc. Medicine and pharmaceuticals are another use.


Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert kirkham
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 6:40 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931


OK, much as wonder if I will regret it, I have to ask: what was the market for blood, and what was the market for hogs urine?  I have packing plants on the line I model, bt have no insight about this tank car traffic.


Rob Kirkham


On Aug 3, 2020, at 4:31 PM, Douglas Harding <iowacentralrr@...> wrote:


Claus thank you. You are correct that is a Decker tank car, used for various fats, like lard, and for blood and hog urine. The tank cars were gone by the early 30s, replaced by leased units.


You cite two groups of Decker reefers, there were others.

 

Doug Harding




BRIAN PAUL EHNI
 

You don’t think it’s washed several times in the process of making the sweater? Have you smelled pig urine when buying said sweaters? Likely not. 

Thanks!
Brian Ehni 
(Sent from my iPhone)

On Aug 3, 2020, at 7:39 PM, Kenneth Montero <va661midlo@...> wrote:


Another good reason to wash/dry clean newly purchased wool clothing before wearing it.

Ken Montreo
On 08/03/2020 8:35 PM Douglas Harding <iowacentralrr@...> wrote:


Oh you will regret. A prime use for hog urine was cleaning lanolin from raw wool. Think of that the next time you wear a wool sweater. It is also used in fertilizer.


Most blood was dried before shipping as blood is very corrosive to steel. Whole blood has to be shipped in glass lined tank cars. Blood was a rich source of protein used in animal feeds as well as in blood meal used as a fertilizer. Up to 30% is used in human consumption products, ie blood sausage, black pudding, baked goods, etc. Medicine and pharmaceuticals are another use.


Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert kirkham
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 6:40 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931


OK, much as wonder if I will regret it, I have to ask: what was the market for blood, and what was the market for hogs urine?  I have packing plants on the line I model, bt have no insight about this tank car traffic.


Rob Kirkham


On Aug 3, 2020, at 4:31 PM, Douglas Harding <iowacentralrr@...> wrote:


Claus thank you. You are correct that is a Decker tank car, used for various fats, like lard, and for blood and hog urine. The tank cars were gone by the early 30s, replaced by leased units.


You cite two groups of Decker reefers, there were others.

 

Doug Harding




Robert kirkham
 

So I guess this leads to the next question: if you wash out all that lanolin, presumably the left over urine/lanolin also has industrial value?  

Does that go to a rendering plant?  Or fertilizer maker?  Or some other kind of chemical company?

Rob


On Aug 3, 2020, at 5:53 PM, BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...> wrote:

You don’t think it’s washed several times in the process of making the sweater? Have you smelled pig urine when buying said sweaters? Likely not. 

Thanks!
Brian Ehni 
(Sent from my iPhone)

On Aug 3, 2020, at 7:39 PM, Kenneth Montero <va661midlo@...> wrote:


Another good reason to wash/dry clean newly purchased wool clothing before wearing it.

Ken Montreo
On 08/03/2020 8:35 PM Douglas Harding <iowacentralrr@...> wrote:


Oh you will regret. A prime use for hog urine was cleaning lanolin from raw wool. Think of that the next time you wear a wool sweater. It is also used in fertilizer.


Most blood was dried before shipping as blood is very corrosive to steel. Whole blood has to be shipped in glass lined tank cars. Blood was a rich source of protein used in animal feeds as well as in blood meal used as a fertilizer. Up to 30% is used in human consumption products, ie blood sausage, black pudding, baked goods, etc. Medicine and pharmaceuticals are another use.



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert kirkham
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 6:40 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931


OK, much as wonder if I will regret it, I have to ask: what was the market for blood, and what was the market for hogs urine?  I have packing plants on the line I model, bt have no insight about this tank car traffic.


Rob Kirkham


On Aug 3, 2020, at 4:31 PM, Douglas Harding <iowacentralrr@...> wrote:


Claus thank you. You are correct that is a Decker tank car, used for various fats, like lard, and for blood and hog urine. The tank cars were gone by the early 30s, replaced by leased units.


You cite two groups of Decker reefers, there were others.

 

Doug Harding





Douglas Harding
 

I can’t answer that question. My interests focused on what cars came in and out of a slaughter house, and what did they contain or what was their function, mostly so I could fill out waybills. Additional information makes for a  good story during the clinic.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert kirkham
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 8:02 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

 

So I guess this leads to the next question: if you wash out all that lanolin, presumably the left over urine/lanolin also has industrial value?  

 

Does that go to a rendering plant?  Or fertilizer maker?  Or some other kind of chemical company?

 

Rob

 

 

On Aug 3, 2020, at 5:53 PM, BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...> wrote:

 

You don’t think it’s washed several times in the process of making the sweater? Have you smelled pig urine when buying said sweaters? Likely not. 

Thanks!

Brian Ehni 

(Sent from my iPhone)



On Aug 3, 2020, at 7:39 PM, Kenneth Montero <va661midlo@...> wrote:



Another good reason to wash/dry clean newly purchased wool clothing before wearing it.

 

Ken Montreo

On 08/03/2020 8:35 PM Douglas Harding <iowacentralrr@...> wrote:

 

 

Oh you will regret. A prime use for hog urine was cleaning lanolin from raw wool. Think of that the next time you wear a wool sweater. It is also used in fertilizer.

 

Most blood was dried before shipping as blood is very corrosive to steel. Whole blood has to be shipped in glass lined tank cars. Blood was a rich source of protein used in animal feeds as well as in blood meal used as a fertilizer. Up to 30% is used in human consumption products, ie blood sausage, black pudding, baked goods, etc. Medicine and pharmaceuticals are another use.

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert kirkham
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 6:40 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

 

OK, much as wonder if I will regret it, I have to ask: what was the market for blood, and what was the market for hogs urine?  I have packing plants on the line I model, bt have no insight about this tank car traffic.

 

Rob Kirkham

 

On Aug 3, 2020, at 4:31 PM, Douglas Harding <iowacentralrr@...> wrote:

 

Claus thank you. You are correct that is a Decker tank car, used for various fats, like lard, and for blood and hog urine. The tank cars were gone by the early 30s, replaced by leased units.


You cite two groups of Decker reefers, there were others.