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Overland tank is too big?
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nyc3001 .
I know I asked this question over a year ago, but I have just acquired a PSC 6 compartment 6k wine tank car. In comparing it to the OMI 3 compartment 8k wine tank car, I noticed that the difference in tank diameter was notable, more than I'd expect for a 2k gallon difference. However, the 6 compartment car is also a little longer than the 3 compartment car.
So is the 3 compartment car oversize? Pics attached. -Phil Lee    |
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Attached is a photo of a NON-insulated GATC 8,000 gallon tank car that once had a center dome. Whether there were insulated versions of the car, like the brass model, I don't know. There were 6,000 gallon 3-dome insulated cars like GATX 33491. On 3/8/2023 6:58 AM, nyc3001 . wrote: I know I asked this question over a year ago, but I have just acquired a PSC 6 compartment 6k wine tank car. In comparing it to the OMI 3 compartment 8k wine tank car, I noticed that the difference in tank diameter was notable, more than I'd expect for a 2k gallon difference. However, the 6 compartment car is also a little longer than the 3 compartment car. --
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts |
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Phjil,
It was over 2 years ago that you asked (2/3/21) about the three-dome car in comparison to another car! Time flies. The 8K three-dome car models a car that was a 10K one-dome car. The addition of the internal bulkheads and resultant air spaces reduced the internal
volume to 8K. So, that car is larger than expected for this reason. Now, the six-dome 6K car might reasonably also be larger for this reason, but note that the tank on that car is substantially longer than the 8K car and that helps compensate for the additional
volume of the bulkheads along with the bulkheads and air spaces being much smaller due to the smaller diameter of the tank.
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of nyc3001 . <nyc3001@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2023 5:58 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Subject: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] Overland tank is too big?
So is the 3 compartment car oversize? Pics attached. -Phil Lee   
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Phil The insulated three-compartment car had a tank diameter of 78” with a 2” blanket. The cars shown in your picture look proportional to their liquid capacity.
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Todd Sullivan
Another reason the larger (10k gallon) car is larger is that it is insulated, which adds about 8" or so to the diameter, based on what I recall from my yard clerking days and having to scrutinize tank cars to figure out what car type they were. It looks like the smaller car also may be insulated. Todd Sullivan |
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nyc3001 .
Good info. I measured the 3 dome tank today, and it scales out at ~88". So that would be 86" in diameter? Seems a bit much to me but the rebuilt 10k tank also sounds like a reasonable explanation.
I also have OMI 3270, which Overland says is an 8k tank. It is the same diameter as the 3 compartment tank. I have had my doubts about that one also since it is the same diameter as OMI 3229, their GATX 10k asphalt tank, but what gives me pause is that the OMI GATX models were apparently measured from real cars. If so, it must be 8k because if it were 10k, it would have 4 bolster tank bands like 3229 does. There are also lots of GATX tank cars with and without dome platforms that look very similar to OMI 3270. Photo of 3270 attached below -Phil |
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The OMI 3270 is a model of a prototype car used for caustic soda. I used to have a photo of a candidate car but I can't locate it at the moment. :-( I've attached examples of such cars from ACF and GAT. The UTLX car is definitely 10k because I found its exact capacity in the tank car tariff book. On 3/8/2023 10:48 PM, nyc3001 . wrote: Good info. I measured the 3 dome tank today, and it scales out at ~88". So that would be 86" in diameter? Seems a bit much to me but the rebuilt 10k tank also sounds like a reasonable explanation. --
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts |
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Frank Hodina
The six-dome wine car has an inside diameter of 66" with 2" of fiberglass insulation. 8000-gallon cars had an inside diameter of 78" with 2", 4" and 6" of fiberglass insulation. An 8000-gallon car with 6" of insulation looks like a 10,000 gallon car with 2" of insulation.
Frank Hodina Resin Car Works |
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Tom Madden
On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 08:48 PM, nyc3001 . wrote:
Good info. I measured the 3 dome tank today, and it scales out at ~88". So that would be 86" in diameter? Seems a bit much to me but the rebuilt 10k tank also sounds like a reasonable explanation.A 2" insulation wrap adds 4" to the diameter. Then you have the wall thickness of the tank plus the wrapper that holds the insulation in place which adds about a half inch to the radius. So your 88" O.D. insulated tank would be 83" I.D. more or less. Tom Madden |
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Chris Barkan
Something seems "wrong" (or at least unexplained) with GATX 1018 (the converted 3-compartment, 8,000 gallon car that Tim posted earlier). Both compartments are stenciled as having a volumetric capacity of 4,025 gals, but the only evidence of bulkheads are the rivets remaining from when it was a 3-compartment car. So where is the bulkhead for these two 4,025 gallon compartments and how is it secured to the tank? Also, note the larger diameter rivet lines left over from the former center compartment expansion dome. I expect that there is some explanation for all this but I am having a difficult time deciphering what it is.
____________ Chris Barkan Champaign, IL |
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nyc3001 .
You're right Tom, was a brain fart.
Good pics, Tim. The Allied tank and the last Hooker tank you posted look like later designs than what I'm modeling (1951), but the Dow tank seems similar to 3270. The first Hooker tank is of some interest because I want to model the Niagara Falls area so will need lots of Hooker tank cars among many others. The Penn Salt tank looks similar to OMI 3133, an AC&F 10k tank. Even though it's advertised as an 8k tank I am quite certain it's 10k as I have crossreferenced it with the Kaminski AC&F books as well as the RCW 10k and 8k kits. Or maybe the lining is very thick. :p I have the same questions, Chris. But there are two tank bands per bolster, so this indicates that the car was originally 10k. Now it is 8k, ~4k per compartment. So maybe the rivet lines correspond with bulkheads and there's just empty space between them? -Phil |
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Chris
Just a wild guess -- they WELDED the interior bulkhead? The 1018 is still listed in the October 1970 Tariff book at 8,040 gallons with two 125 gallon domes. On 3/9/2023 5:22 PM, Chris Barkan wrote: Something seems "wrong" (or at least unexplained) with GATX 1018 (the converted 3-compartment, 8,000 gallon car that Tim posted earlier). Both compartments are stenciled as having a volumetric capacity of 4,025 gals, but the only evidence of bulkheads are the rivets remaining from when it was a 3-compartment car. So where is the bulkhead for these two 4,025 gallon compartments and how is it secured to the tank? Also, note the larger diameter rivet lines left over from the former center compartment expansion dome. I expect that there is some explanation for all this but I am having a difficult time deciphering what it is. --
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts |
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 ACF- ICC103 insulated Hooker causticsoda SantaBarbaraCA 9-20-1978.jpg)