P2K Tank Cars & K brakes
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Kathe Robin <kathe@...>
Be aware that Cal-Scale (Bowser) has PERMANENTLY discontinued their part
#199-290 and #190-291, which were KC brake sets in plastic and brass respectively!! The mold is worn out/damaged, and since they were doing the brass sets via "lost plastic" casting, those got canceled also. Lee English tells me it will cost ~$28, to make a new mold and the order rate just doesn't justify it. In fact he specifically said that while they redid the AB brake mold, the order rate is such that he figures it could be 35 - 50 years just 'till he recovers the money spent, to say nothing of lost interest and available capital for other product. Sorry to be the messenger of bad/disappointing news. Max ------------------------------------------------------- email: m_robin@... smail: Max S. Robin, P.E. Cheat River Engineering Inc. 23 Richwood Place / P. O. Box 289 Denville, NJ 07834 - 0289 voice: 973 - 627 - 5895 fax: 973 - 627 - 5460 ------------------------------------------------------
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byronrose@...
On Sat, 23 Dec 2000 10:59:52 -0500 Kathe Robin <kathe@...>
writes: Be aware that Cal-Scale (Bowser) has PERMANENTLY discontinued theirMax, What Lee neglected to tell you was that they did such a poor job of tooling it that anyone who's knowledgeable will shun them. Besides, while they were off the market several others became available which have permanently replaced the mess that the CalScale set had turned into. Try comparing the castings as they were originally made 40+ years ago (or Grandt Lines current set) to the current CalScale. The original patterns had been distorted by their "repair" over the years to the point that the AB valve was about half the height it should have been (you couldn't attach more than 3 pipes where 6 need to be placed) and one side of the reservoir was larger than the other half. The cylinder and retainer valve were also shortened but nobody would know because nobody knows what the correct sizes should be. Unfortunately, that is what Lee English copied to make the new tooling. They got what they bargained for. The irony is that some of the new sets are no more than copies (rip-offs is the technical term) of the inferior CalScale sets. The best set on the market, IMHO, is from Grandt Line. The components in it are closest to scale size. Try mounting a reservoir ATSF style with the Tichy set. In my humbler opinion, my sets ain't too bad either!! BSR (doing what he does best!) ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
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Kathe Robin <kathe@...>
Byron:
Unfortunately I am aware of this degradation of quality problem, since I still have some Cal-Scale K brake sets purchased directly from John Anderson in the early '60s (mostly on cars I must admit). I've been using those sparingly and some of the Grandt ones also. How do I order yours? (Part # & $ to send?) Max ------------------------------------------------------- email: m_robin@... smail: Max S. Robin, P.E. Cheat River Engineering Inc. 23 Richwood Place / P. O. Box 289 Denville, NJ 07834 - 0289 voice: 973 - 627 - 5895 fax: 973 - 627 - 5460 ------------------------------------------------------
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Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...>
On Dec 23, 10:59am, Kathe Robin wrote:
Lee English tells me it will cost ~$28, to make a new mold and the orderA very late question (I've been out of town): Surely "~$28" is a typo; I'm curious as to what the real tooling cost would be. $2,800? Regards, -Jeff -- Jeff Aley, Development Engineer jaley@... Graphics Components Division Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA (916) 356-3533
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byronrose@...
Jeff,
That's probably correct. Since they would screw it up so much, no one would buy whatever it is you're talking about and they'd never make their 28 bucks back. Okay, okay, I know you're talking about K brakes. And Bowser. But wasn't there a rumor several (many?) months ago that LifeLike was gonna retool the underframe back to K brakes for a future run of the P2K tank cars? Just asking. BSR On Thu, 4 Jan 2001 14:38:25 -0800 (PST) Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...> writes: On Dec 23, 10:59am, Kathe Robin wrote:________________________________________________________________Lee English tells me it will cost ~$28, to make a new mold and theorderrate just doesn't justify it.A very late question (I've been out of town): GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
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Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. <smithbf@...>
On Dec 23, 10:59am, Kathe Robin wrote:Um Jeff...my bet is that we'll be adding another zero - $28,000Lee English tells me it will cost ~$28, to make a new mold and the orderA very late question (I've been out of town): Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0
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Kathe Robin <kathe@...>
You're right that was a typo. The cost to "rebuild" the mold is
$28,000. Be aware that rebuild may be a misnomer since often when molds reach the end of repairable life new ones are fabricated from scratch. Max ------------------------------------------------------- email: m_robin@... smail: Max S. Robin, P.E. Cheat River Engineering Inc. 23 Richwood Place / P. O. Box 289 Denville, NJ 07834 - 0289 voice: 973 - 627 - 5895 fax: 973 - 627 - 5460 ------------------------------------------------------
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Jon Miller <atsf@...>
I have a problem with the figure of $28,000 to cut a mold for a K-brake.
We are talking one part 3/4" long here. I think probably $2,800 is more accurate. At 10 cents a part profit it would take 28,000 parts to break even, probably more than could be sold in 10 years! Jon Miller AT&SF For me time has stopped in 1941 Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system NMRA Life member #2623 Member SFRH&MS
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Kathe Robin <kathe@...>
I believe that the K brake set that CalScale used to make included other
parts besides the actual cylinder/reservoir, such as levers, brake wheel, retainer valve etc. Max
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Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...>
On Jan 4, 4:53pm, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. wrote:
Subject: Re: [STMFC] P2K Tank Cars & K brakesorderOn Dec 23, 10:59am, Kathe Robin wrote:Lee English tells me it will cost ~$28, to make a new mold and the Um Jeff...my bet is that we'll be adding another zero - $28,000rate just doesn't justify it.A very late question (I've been out of town): Wow! That's a pretty big pile of money! I thought that one could tool an entire freight car for $100,000. Are the brakes really 1/4 of the total cost? Or is most of the $28,000 "overhead"? [Or does it cost a heck of a lot more than $100K for a freight car?] Somebody once tried to explain to me how molding costs worked. I didn't understand fully, but I thought he said something about a "mold base" that was a significant part of the tooling cost, and that if the "mold base" was reusable, the incremental costs were much smaller. Does this kind of thing apply in this case? (Should I subscribe to the Tooling Costs for Injection Molded Plastic Freight Cars List (TCIMPFCL)??) Regards, -Jeff -- Jeff Aley, Development Engineer jaley@... Graphics Components Division Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA (916) 356-3533
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thompson@...
Jeff Aley comments:
Wow! That's a pretty big pile of money! I thought that one could tool anI may be out of date on this, but the $100k number that used to get thrown around was for steel dies. Aluminum dies made with NC technology are supposedly less expensive. And any single sprue, as opposed to a multi-part die which has to open in several directions to eject the part, cannot be close to the costs for a full body die. Can anyone supply modern numbers for these various cases? (Should I subscribe to the Tooling Costs forHey, now THAT sounds interesting. But I think I'd only want to join the Steam Era TCIMPFCL. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history
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