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Pacific Fruit Express - Express Refrigerator Cars

vapeurchapelon
 

What a nice photo! And note the splendid condition of that cute PRR electric shunter! It definitely IS accurate to run engines in like-new condition, if only for a couple days :-)
 
Greetings
 
Johannes
 
Gesendet: Montag, 24. Oktober 2022 um 14:31 Uhr
Von: "Chris Barkan" <cplbarkan@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Pacific Fruit Express - Express Refrigerator Cars
On Thu, Oct 13, 2022 at 06:36 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:
Chris Barkan wrote:

That is a magnificent photo, the cars look splendid, thank you for posting it Richard! This reminds me of a question I had about these cars sometime ago. Did they mostly stay on the west coast or on SP lines anyway, or did they roam the national network?
Hi, Chris. These cars, like all of PFE’s express reefers, were assigned to the Railway Express pool, as were the express cars of many railroads (I provided a list in the PFE book). They certainly COULD go everywhere, and no doubt did, but the car owners were responsible for any maintenance beyond minor repairs, so they did tend to operate regionally, or get sent home from distant destinations.

Tony Thompson
tony@...
To your point Tony, please see the photo of Sunnyside Yard in New York for sale on EBay right now.
 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/144777344543

Chris
--
Chris Barkan
Champaign, IL

Tim O'Connor
 


There may be no 'correct' answer then, if you don't believe the railroad's own documents. :-)

I have a set of SP heavyweight "Dulux Gold" passenger car lettering from Coach Yard that look
very orange to me, on the tan paper. For application over Dark Olive paint, which may alter
the way they look to one's eye.


On 10/21/2022 6:22 PM, Geodyssey wrote:

No, Tony just pointed out that there are documents stating that the lettering was Dulux Gold.  That's like saying someone has clear title just because the deed has been notarized.

The lettering color on PFE 949 looks to be almost exactly the same as the patched PFE / Daylight orange on the refer next to it.  Maybe "color shift" on just the left half of the photo?  Maybe the wood refer was painted Dulux Gold? (no and no).

If the PFE express refer lettering color was the same Dulux Gold which was indeed used on SP passenger cars, where are color photos of SP olive passenger cars with lettering that looks as orange as the express refer lettering seen in two photos?  In every SP olive passenger car color photo I've seen the lettering looks like Dulux Gold, a light yellow-brown, or tan.

Rob Simpson

------------------------

Obviously digital scans can render an image poorly, but screen calibration to a standard color palette
is important as well. To say nothing of our individual color acuity or lack of it. Tony pointed out that the
lettering was Dulux Gold applied over dark olive and in bright noon sunlight looked slightly orange. Made
sense to me. :-) Sometime in the 1950's 'Dulux Gold' (a Dupont color) began to look like less like
"Imitation Gold" (AP #22) and shifted to Light Imitation Gold (AP #60 or TCP #89).

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Tim O'Connor
 

Steve and all

I increasingly suspect that we're looking at a film photography artifact (color shift) in that one photo. It happens.
No other color photo of SP express reefers I've seen make the lettering appear to be orange.


On 10/21/2022 7:41 PM, Steve and Barb Hile wrote:

I don’t really have a horse in this race, but I wanted to see several versions of PFE express reefers together and discovered this color shot of a wooden car in fresh paint.  The gold lettering looks pretty good on this one.

 

Could the paint shop have been fresh out of Dulux Gold when they needed to letter the repainted steel cars??

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Geodyssey
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2022 5:22 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Pacific Fruit Express - Express Refrigerator Cars

 

No, Tony just pointed out that there are documents stating that the lettering was Dulux Gold.  That's like saying someone has clear title just because the deed has been notarized.

The lettering color on PFE 949 looks to be almost exactly the same as the patched PFE / Daylight orange on the refer next to it.  Maybe "color shift" on just the left half of the photo?  Maybe the wood refer was painted Dulux Gold? (no and no).

If the PFE express refer lettering color was the same Dulux Gold which was indeed used on SP passenger cars, where are color photos of SP olive passenger cars with lettering that looks as orange as the express refer lettering seen in two photos?  In every SP olive passenger car color photo I've seen the lettering looks like Dulux Gold, a light yellow-brown, or tan.

Rob Simpson

------------------------

Obviously digital scans can render an image poorly, but screen calibration to a standard color palette
is important as well. To say nothing of our individual color acuity or lack of it. Tony pointed out that the
lettering was Dulux Gold applied over dark olive and in bright noon sunlight looked slightly orange. Made
sense to me. :-) Sometime in the 1950's 'Dulux Gold' (a Dupont color) began to look like less like
"Imitation Gold" (AP #22) and shifted to Light Imitation Gold (AP #60 or TCP #89).

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Tim O'Connor
 


Nice picture !! Those MP & UP cars probably came via St Louis. I remember picking up my
grandmother at North Philadelphia in the 1960's and the train had a hodge podge of non-PRR cars
in it including UP cars.

On 10/24/2022 8:31 AM, Chris Barkan wrote:

On Thu, Oct 13, 2022 at 06:36 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:
Chris Barkan wrote:

That is a magnificent photo, the cars look splendid, thank you for posting it Richard! This reminds me of a question I had about these cars sometime ago. Did they mostly stay on the west coast or on SP lines anyway, or did they roam the national network?
Hi, Chris. These cars, like all of PFE’s express reefers, were assigned to the Railway Express pool, as were the express cars of many railroads (I provided a list in the PFE book). They certainly COULD go everywhere, and no doubt did, but the car owners were responsible for any maintenance beyond minor repairs, so they did tend to operate regionally, or get sent home from distant destinations.

Tony Thompson
tony@...
To your point Tony, please see the photo of Sunnyside Yard in New York for sale on EBay right now.
 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/144777344543

Chris Barkan

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Richard Wilkens
 

Tim is most correct, that particular slide was very dense and required some work to make it presentable. Most images from that roll of film are all on the dark side.

Rich Wilkens
Director of Collections, Pacific Northwest Railroad Archive
Tony Thompson
 

Richard Wilkens wrote:

Tim is most correct, that particular slide was very dense and required some work to make it presentable. Most images from that roll of film are all on the dark side.
Bingo.

Tony Thompson
tony@...
Charlie Vlk
 

Anybody notice that the PFE express reefer has the Lionel MPC weird trucks!
Charlie VLK


On Oct 25, 2022, at 12:03 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Steve and all

I increasingly suspect that we're looking at a film photography artifact (color shift) in that one photo. It happens.
No other color photo of SP express reefers I've seen make the lettering appear to be orange.


On 10/21/2022 7:41 PM, Steve and Barb Hile wrote:

I don’t really have a horse in this race, but I wanted to see several versions of PFE express reefers together and discovered this color shot of a wooden car in fresh paint.  The gold lettering looks pretty good on this one.

 

Could the paint shop have been fresh out of Dulux Gold when they needed to letter the repainted steel cars??

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Geodyssey
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2022 5:22 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Pacific Fruit Express - Express Refrigerator Cars

 

No, Tony just pointed out that there are documents stating that the lettering was Dulux Gold.  That's like saying someone has clear title just because the deed has been notarized.

The lettering color on PFE 949 looks to be almost exactly the same as the patched PFE / Daylight orange on the refer next to it.  Maybe "color shift" on just the left half of the photo?  Maybe the wood refer was painted Dulux Gold? (no and no).

If the PFE express refer lettering color was the same Dulux Gold which was indeed used on SP passenger cars, where are color photos of SP olive passenger cars with lettering that looks as orange as the express refer lettering seen in two photos?  In every SP olive passenger car color photo I've seen the lettering looks like Dulux Gold, a light yellow-brown, or tan.

Rob Simpson

------------------------

Obviously digital scans can render an image poorly, but screen calibration to a standard color palette
is important as well. To say nothing of our individual color acuity or lack of it. Tony pointed out that the
lettering was Dulux Gold applied over dark olive and in bright noon sunlight looked slightly orange. Made
sense to me. :-) Sometime in the 1950's 'Dulux Gold' (a Dupont color) began to look like less like
"Imitation Gold" (AP #22) and shifted to Light Imitation Gold (AP #60 or TCP #89).

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Jack Mullen
 

On Tue, Oct 25, 2022 at 10:03 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
I increasingly suspect that we're looking at a film photography artifact (color shift) in that one photo. It happens.
Yep. Look at the way the body color is rendered in the two photos. In the original post 3 car photo, the cars look black. In the second, there's a hint of green, but the look is more Pennsy Dark Green Locomotive Enamel than SP Dark Olive Green. So either the paint shop didn't follow the specified color scheme *at all*, or something is off in the color rendition in these photos.  It seems to me that deficiency in yellow could cause imitation gold and olive green to shift toward orange and black.
Jack Mullen
Tony Thompson
 

Charlie Vlk wrote:

Anybody notice that the PFE express reefer has the Lionel MPC weird trucks!

C’mon, Charlie, join the 20th century. Read the book. They are Symington-Gould XL tracks. Not weird.

Tony Thompson
Tim O'Connor
 


indeed (albeit they were uncommon trucks)

On 10/25/2022 11:48 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:

Charlie Vlk wrote:
Anybody notice that the PFE express reefer has the Lionel MPC weird trucks!

C’mon, Charlie, join the 20th century. Read the book. They are Symington-Gould XL tracks. Not weird.

Tony Thompson


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Charlie Vlk
 

All-
My comment was from the perspective of a student of Model Railroad product decisions.
That somebody decided it would be a good decision to seemingly randomly flip open a Cyclopedia and tool up a truck to be used on almost all the Lionel product for decades is interesting to me.
Allied Full Cushion trucks are more numerous but would have been an equally weird choice if, say, Irv Athearn had decided to equip all his kits with it.
In terms of numbers in use and word selection weird may not be the thesaurus choice you would have used but while I’ve seen photos of cars with those trucks I never saw any trackside….many more common types that have not been modeled in any scale, but S-G XL were made in the millions by Lionel???!!!! THAT is weird!
Charlie Vlk
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