Pere Marquette DD 40' steel box


anthony wagner
 

If anyone has a photo they are willing to share of Pere Marquette 10' IH 40' double door XMs in series 91000-91499 or 91850-92349 totaling 769 cars on 1-1-50 I would appreciate it. I am trying to determine if cars in this series had Viking roofs. My search for photos on the web has not been successful. Tony Wagner


Schleigh Mike
 

Hello Tony & Group!

According to the equipment diagram on page 89 of "PM Revenue Freight Cars" (Million/Paton), the first group had a Hutchins roof while the second group had a Cleveland - Cleveland roof.  In notes the latter are noted as radial.  I  believe the C-C are the Viking design.  However, the next group in the book are 93000-93399 and are noted as having specifically "Viking" roofs.  (These are peaked.)  Photos in the book do not clearly show the characteristic ribbing of the C-C on your second group of interest.  Hope this helps.

Regards from Mike Schleigh in Grove City, Penna. 



On Wednesday, May 12, 2021, 12:33:24 PM EDT, anthony wagner <anycw1@...> wrote:


If anyone has a photo they are willing to share of Pere Marquette 10' IH 40' double door XMs in series 91000-91499 or 91850-92349 totaling 769 cars on 1-1-50 I would appreciate it. I am trying to determine if cars in this series had Viking roofs. My search for photos on the web has not been successful. Tony Wagner


Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Tony,

If you are building one of these cars, note that they had 8-rung ladders that stopped well short of side's upper rivet line.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Wed, May 12, 2021 at 1:05 PM Schleigh Mike via groups.io <mike_schleigh=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello Tony & Group!

According to the equipment diagram on page 89 of "PM Revenue Freight Cars" (Million/Paton), the first group had a Hutchins roof while the second group had a Cleveland - Cleveland roof.  In notes the latter are noted as radial.  I  believe the C-C are the Viking design.  However, the next group in the book are 93000-93399 and are noted as having specifically "Viking" roofs.  (These are peaked.)  Photos in the book do not clearly show the characteristic ribbing of the C-C on your second group of interest.  Hope this helps.

Regards from Mike Schleigh in Grove City, Penna. 



On Wednesday, May 12, 2021, 12:33:24 PM EDT, anthony wagner <anycw1@...> wrote:


If anyone has a photo they are willing to share of Pere Marquette 10' IH 40' double door XMs in series 91000-91499 or 91850-92349 totaling 769 cars on 1-1-50 I would appreciate it. I am trying to determine if cars in this series had Viking roofs. My search for photos on the web has not been successful. Tony Wagner


steve_wintner
 

I thought the Chicago Cleveland radial was a round design, not peaked, while the Viking was a peaked roof. It's a different design, not just the same thing under 2 names. 

Steve


David
 

PM 90350-91849 had Hutchins Dry Lading peaked roofs, and 91850-92349 had Climax radial (by Chicago-Cleveland) roofs.

David Thompson


Schleigh Mike
 

Steve,

I think you have caught me.  For some reason I have conflated the two names and I don't have any handy reference to further my understanding.  I did however check in with my ERIE diagrams.  (Remember that the PM and the ERIE were under of the Advisory Mechanical Committee so a lot of their cars appear to designed on the same drawing board.)  There are many examples of the Viking being both peaked and radial but, for the Chicago-Cleveland, only radial.  Also, in their own short-hand way, the two versions of radial are not depicted alike.  I will be watching for a refresher course in these old roof designs.

Sorry for any confusion.

Regards----Mike Schleigh in Grove City, Penna.

On Wednesday, May 12, 2021, 08:49:48 PM EDT, steve_wintner via groups.io <steve_wintner@...> wrote:


I thought the Chicago Cleveland radial was a round design, not peaked, while the Viking was a peaked roof. It's a different design, not just the same thing under 2 names. 

Steve


James Brewer
 

Here is a diagram from the NWHS archives of the Chicago-Cleveland Climax radial roof:

https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=3744

And here is a photo of the radial roof as applied to a N&W stock car, Class SK

https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=19321

Jim Brewer


Eric J Boone
 

Tony,

I am actually working on a 3D printed model of that car (90350 to 91849).  It's 95% there.  I just have to work out reliable fitting of the body and floor.  This is printed as two parts, ladders, grabs, and all.  The only separate pieces are the couplers, trucks, stirrups (because stirrups are so exposed) and brake shaft and wheel (again because the brake weel and rod will be fairly exposed.  Here is a picture of one I painted up.


Tony Thompson
 

Very good-looking car! Are these going to be available when you get the bugs out?
Tony Thompson 


On May 26, 2021, at 8:31 AM, Eric J Boone <eric@...> wrote:

Tony,

I am actually working on a 3D printed model of that car (90350 to 91849).  It's 95% there.  I just have to work out reliable fitting of the body and floor.  This is printed as two parts, ladders, grabs, and all.  The only separate pieces are the couplers, trucks, stirrups (because stirrups are so exposed) and brake shaft and wheel (again because the brake weel and rod will be fairly exposed.  Here is a picture of one I painted up.
<186500096_10157891770596835_6831809342505102993_n.jpg>
<186564233_10157891770626835_5535460154974626094_n.jpg>


Fritz Milhaupt
 

That looks fantastic, Eric!

I love how this is turning out.

- Fritz Milhaupt


Frank Hodina
 

We'll be releasing the PM 90350-91849 series cars as a one piece body resin kit later this summer. These are the Pullman built cars without end doors and a Hutchins roof. The kit will include decals for both the PM and C&O along with correct side and end ladders from Plano Model Products.

Frank
Resin Car Works


James Brewer
 

Frank,

Great! Looking forward to this kit!

Jim Brewer


Tim O'Connor
 


Nice! Is this similar to the old Yankee Clipper resin kit (or was it Funaro & Camerlengo?) for the C&O?
Also, I think Oriental imported a brass model or two for the C&O cars?

Tim O'Connor


On 5/27/2021 10:19 AM, Frank Hodina wrote:
We'll be releasing the PM 90350-91849 series cars as a one piece body resin kit later this summer. These are the Pullman built cars without end doors and a Hutchins roof. The kit will include decals for both the PM and C&O along with correct side and end ladders from Plano Model Products.

Frank
Resin Car Works

Attachments:

_._


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


vapeurchapelon
 

Hello Tim,
 
I think the Oriental brass imports are different:
 
https://www.brasstrains.com/BrassGuide/PDG/Detail/33748
 
many greetings
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1954
 
Gesendet: Freitag, 28. Mai 2021 um 23:48 Uhr
Von: "Tim O'Connor" <timboconnor@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Pere Marquette DD 40' steel box

Nice! Is this similar to the old Yankee Clipper resin kit (or was it Funaro & Camerlengo?) for the C&O?
Also, I think Oriental imported a brass model or two for the C&O cars?

Tim O'Connor


On 5/27/2021 10:19 AM, Frank Hodina wrote:
We'll be releasing the PM 90350-91849 series cars as a one piece body resin kit later this summer. These are the Pullman built cars without end doors and a Hutchins roof. The kit will include decals for both the PM and C&O along with correct side and end ladders from Plano Model Products.

Frank
Resin Car Works

Attachments:

_._

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Fritz Milhaupt
 

Johannes has it right- The Oriental Limited and Funaro & Camerlengo models are not PM cars- they have radial roofs, where the PM cars did not.

For the casual observer, this is somewhat complicated by the shortcuts taken when the AMC guys in Cleveland prepared and revised the diagram book for Pere Marquette freight cars in the early 1940. C&O employee and Pere Marquette/C&O historian Phil Shuster stated repeatedly that while the information in the tables is accurate for each group of cars, they didn't have drawings available for all of the PM cars, so some sheets have drawings from C&O cars that they felt were "close enough." This is one class that was depicted that way in the commonly-available set of drawings.

A few years ago, I picked up a couple of F&C kits with the idea of replacing the roofs and seeing what else I could do to make them closer to the PM cars, but thankfully it doesn't look like I'll need to go through with that. 'guess I'll build them as C&O cars.

-Fritz Milhaupt
Pere Marquette Historical Society