PFE Express Reefer in NYC Express Train


Paul Catapano
 

Tony,
Are you saying that that is a “Stock” PFE Express Reefer?
I have to take your word as I wouldn’t know one if it walked up and bit me.

Paul Catapano
Winchester, VA.


Tony Thompson
 

Paul Catapano wrote:

Are you saying that that is a “Stock” PFE Express Reefer?
I have to take your word as I wouldn’t know one if it walked up and bit me.
Perhaps a poor choice of words. I only meant to say "typical" or "ordinary" or "standard." As others pointed out, it is indeed the post-1954 rebuilt type with the very narrow fascia along the top of the sides.

Tony Thompson
tony@signaturepress.com


Tim O'Connor
 


There were 300 of these PFE express reefers. You can be sure they were
seen in most states at times of the year. Express reefers could be returned in
freight trains with less-perishable loads or carried in freights in the off season.

Tim O'Connor


On 4/11/2021 3:46 PM, Paul Catapano wrote:
Tony,
Are you saying that that is a “Stock” PFE Express Reefer?
I have to take your word as I wouldn’t know one if it walked up and bit me.

Paul Catapano
Winchester, VA.

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

There were 300 of these PFE express reefers. You can be sure they were
seen in most states at times of the year. Express reefers could be returned in
freight trains with less-perishable loads or carried in freights in the off season.

    Very true, Tim, and in addition, PFE was a participant in the Railway Express pool, so that cars were moved where needed under REA direction. They really could be seen anywhere.

Tony Thompson




bill stanton
 

were these express reefers iced along with ordinary reefers or were they handled separately?


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tony Thompson <tony@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2021 2:29 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PFE Express Reefer in NYC Express Train
 
Tim O'Connor wrote:

There were 300 of these PFE express reefers. You can be sure they were
seen in most states at times of the year. Express reefers could be returned in
freight trains with less-perishable loads or carried in freights in the off season.

    Very true, Tim, and in addition, PFE was a participant in the Railway Express pool, so that cars were moved where needed under REA direction. They really could be seen anywhere.

Tony Thompson




Tony Thompson
 

bill stanton wrote:

were these express reefers iced along with ordinary reefers or were they handled separately?

Yes. By which I mean, it depended. 

Tony Thompson




bill stanton
 

please elaborate further...i'm simply trying to figure out how to handle them operationally on my railroad (modeling colton and LA circa 1947)


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tony Thompson <tony@...>
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 11:16 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PFE Express Reefer in NYC Express Train
 
bill stanton wrote:

were these express reefers iced along with ordinary reefers or were they handled separately?

Yes. By which I mean, it depended. 

Tony Thompson




Tony Thompson
 

please elaborate further...i'm simply trying to figure out how to handle them operationally on my railroad (modeling colton and LA circa 1947)

A string of express reefers might be taken over to the ice deck, if it happened to be nearby. But single cars, and cars in trains without time to wait for movement to an ice deck, would be iced right at the depot, using an elevating truck body to get ice up to the ice hatches. Photos of all this in the PFE book.

Tony Thompson




bill stanton
 

would express reefers have been intermingled with ordinary reefers in the icing process or kept separate?


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tony Thompson <tony@...>
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 4:22 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PFE Express Reefer in NYC Express Train
 
please elaborate further...i'm simply trying to figure out how to handle them operationally on my railroad (modeling colton and LA circa 1947)

A string of express reefers might be taken over to the ice deck, if it happened to be nearby. But single cars, and cars in trains without time to wait for movement to an ice deck, would be iced right at the depot, using an elevating truck body to get ice up to the ice hatches. Photos of all this in the PFE book.

Tony Thompson




Tim O'Connor
 


it depends


On 4/12/2021 7:24 PM, bill stanton wrote:
would express reefers have been intermingled with ordinary reefers in the icing process or kept separate?


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tony Thompson <tony@...>
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 4:22 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PFE Express Reefer in NYC Express Train
 
please elaborate further...i'm simply trying to figure out how to handle them operationally on my railroad (modeling colton and LA circa 1947)

A string of express reefers might be taken over to the ice deck, if it happened to be nearby. But single cars, and cars in trains without time to wait for movement to an ice deck, would be iced right at the depot, using an elevating truck body to get ice up to the ice hatches. Photos of all this in the PFE book.

Tony Thompson


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


bill stanton
 

would they ever have been iced along with ordinary reefers?


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2021 8:59 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PFE Express Reefer in NYC Express Train
 

it depends


On 4/12/2021 7:24 PM, bill stanton wrote:
would express reefers have been intermingled with ordinary reefers in the icing process or kept separate?


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tony Thompson <tony@...>
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 4:22 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PFE Express Reefer in NYC Express Train
 
please elaborate further...i'm simply trying to figure out how to handle them operationally on my railroad (modeling colton and LA circa 1947)

A string of express reefers might be taken over to the ice deck, if it happened to be nearby. But single cars, and cars in trains without time to wait for movement to an ice deck, would be iced right at the depot, using an elevating truck body to get ice up to the ice hatches. Photos of all this in the PFE book.

Tony Thompson


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Todd Sullivan
 

Bill,

As Tony Thompson indicated, if in a passenger train and loaded, they would be iced by an ice truck with a lift body while still in the train.  That was to save the time of cutting the express reefer out of the passenger train, taking it to the nearest icing facility (probably miles from the train depot), icing it, and returning it to the passenger train to continue its journey.  So, it would be unlikely for a loaded express reefer to be iced with freight reefers.  OTOH, if the load called for pre-icing, I imagine the express reefer could have been pre-iced at an icing facility in a freight yard with freight reefers. 

Tony (or others) certainly are welcome to chime in with their take on this hunch of mine.

Todd Sullivan


Tony Thompson
 

Todd Sullivan  wrote:

As Tony Thompson indicated, if in a passenger train and loaded, they would be iced by an ice truck with a lift body while still in the train.  That was to save the time of cutting the express reefer out of the passenger train, taking it to the nearest icing facility (probably miles from the train depot), icing it, and returning it to the passenger train to continue its journey.  So, it would be unlikely for a loaded express reefer to be iced with freight reefers.  OTOH, if the load called for pre-icing, I imagine the express reefer could have been pre-iced at an icing facility in a freight yard with freight reefers. 

Tony (or others) certainly are welcome to chime in with their take on this hunch of mine.

  Well described, Todd. The major exception to your description was in certain early-season shipments when entire trains of express reefers were moved over the railroad. In that case, the string WAS taken to the ice deck. There are photos. But that's a special case, not typical practice.

Tony Thompson




Jeffrey White
 

The IC contracted with Central Illinois Public Services to provide their ice plants in Southern Illinois.  In Centralia IL they had a large ice plant and platform about 3 miles South of the passenger depot in the freight yards alongside the South bound main.  They iced reefers going in both directions there.  CIPS also had a small ice plant uptown right behind the passenger depot.


I've circled it on this track chart.  There was a track to the back of the building and I have a 1934 aerial photo of downtown Centralia that shows what appears to be an express reefer on that track.

Here is the complete photo. It's a little clearer.

While they had the capability to cut an express reefer out at the depot and spot it at the ice plant just behind the depot and I have a photo showing an express reefer there, I have been told they iced from a truck on the platform.

Jeff White

Alma, IL

On 4/13/2021 1:36 PM, Todd Sullivan via groups.io wrote:
Bill,

As Tony Thompson indicated, if in a passenger train and loaded, they would be iced by an ice truck with a lift body while still in the train.  That was to save the time of cutting the express reefer out of the passenger train, taking it to the nearest icing facility (probably miles from the train depot), icing it, and returning it to the passenger train to continue its journey.  So, it would be unlikely for a loaded express reefer to be iced with freight reefers.  OTOH, if the load called for pre-icing, I imagine the express reefer could have been pre-iced at an icing facility in a freight yard with freight reefers. 

Tony (or others) certainly are welcome to chime in with their take on this hunch of mine.

Todd Sullivan


mopacfirst
 

There was a small ice house at the south end of the platforms, beyond the express facility, at Wichita Union Station.  It was probably there for the purpose of icing passenger cars as needed.  There was also a ramp right by it, for vehicular access to the platforms, which I used to drive up on when I was watching passenger trains.  So if an express reefer needed icing, which was probably a rare occurrence there, it wouldn't have been hard to do.  

Ron Merrick


akerboomk
 

Don’t forget that many/most “larger” passenger stations would need ice for passenger car A/C (obviously depending on whether cars that used ice AC would, or could, pass thru and need it at that point).  I’m sure the passenger depts. of the railroads would plan out where icing would be needed, and therefor which stations needed the facilities.

 

So the only additional equipment needed for express reefers would be the lift truck to get the ice up to the roof level.

 


--
Ken Akerboom


bill stanton
 

ok its getting more clear now
at least 3 different scenarios mentioned...
  1. if a string of express reefers all needed icing they could be done together in a bunch
  2. if an individual car needed pre icing and it didn't hurt a psgr schedule it could be done along with ordinary reefers
  3. if a car in a psgr train needed icing, odds are done by truck at the depot so as to not delay the train
thanks to all


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...>
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2021 1:40 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PFE Express Reefer in NYC Express Train
 
There was a small ice house at the south end of the platforms, beyond the express facility, at Wichita Union Station.  It was probably there for the purpose of icing passenger cars as needed.  There was also a ramp right by it, for vehicular access to the platforms, which I used to drive up on when I was watching passenger trains.  So if an express reefer needed icing, which was probably a rare occurrence there, it wouldn't have been hard to do.  

Ron Merrick


Bob Chaparro
 

Mobile Icing.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Joseph
 

Cool photo.  Not sure OSHA would let this happen these days

On Wed, Apr 14, 2021 at 10:52 AM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:
Mobile Icing.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA