Topics

Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)


Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/55053/rec/56

Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.

Car built in 1930. The car height was extended with a new steel panel roof and upper side and end panels during a minor rebuilding program in 1941-1944.

Car has a switching tag or card ("52") on the door.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Scott
 

Well, this one has a mineral red roof on it and a 1948 re-weigh. I guess I have been painting them wrong all this time which is disappointing.  I thought they still had black roofs then.  Certainly make painting then easier I suppose. 

Scott McDonald 


Andy Carlson
 

A survivor with one side remaining in Santa Fe paint can be found in Southern California's town of Inyokern, just below Ridgecrest at a Hardware and feed store. A high desert community.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Sunday, November 22, 2020, 9:39:51 AM PST, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:



brianleppert@att.net
 

I think that's a black roof, just not much contrast from the red.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


WILLIAM PARDIE
 

There are many Santa Fe experts that can confirm this but I have felt that the black roofs came into play around the mid 40's.  I have builders photos of the war emergency box car with rhe mineral brown roof.

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Scott <repairman87@...>
Date: 11/22/20 7:57 AM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

Well, this one has a mineral red roof on it and a 1948 re-weigh. I guess I have been painting them wrong all this time which is disappointing.  I thought they still had black roofs then.  Certainly make painting then easier I suppose. 

Scott McDonald 


Steve SANDIFER
 

I don’t know that this photo tells us what color the roof is. The official date where roofs began to be painted mineral brown was 1951, but some continued to be repainted black for another year or two.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Scott
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2020 11:58 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

Well, this one has a mineral red roof on it and a 1948 re-weigh. I guess I have been painting them wrong all this time which is disappointing.  I thought they still had black roofs then.  Certainly make painting then easier I suppose. 

Scott McDonald 


Jack Mullen
 

I also think this is a black roof.  There's a significant contrast between the tone of the vertical side extension and the overlapping edge of the roof panels. The contrast is pretty clear on the left half of the car, but obscured by light colored weathering to the right of the door.

Jack Mullen


Steve SANDIFER
 

1910-1931:

Mineral Brown – sides, ends, roofs, doors, underframes and trucks on repainted cars.

Black – underframes and trucks on new cars, route card boards.

 

1931-1951

Mineral Brown: sides, ends, and doors, underframes and trucks on repainted cars; wood sheathed roofs, wood running boards, edges of flooring at door openings, roof hatches on convertible stock cars.

Black: underframes and trucks on new cars only, route card boards (not on all cars).

Black Anti-slip – steel or metal sheathed roofs, steel running boards on repainted cars.

 

1951-1980

Mineral brown – sides, ends (most cars) and doors; underframes and trucks on repainted cars, wood sheathed roofs, wood running boards, steel running boards (repainted cars); ends of flooring at door openings, roof hatches on convertible stock cars.

Black: underframes and trucks (new cars only); route card boards (only in the early 50s, not on all cars).

Anti-slip mineral brown: steel or metal-sheathed roofs. Began in 1951 but black or redish brown granules continued to be used on some cars for several years. Anti-slip was discontinued in the late 50s/early 60s because trainmen seldom rode the car tops when in movement.

 

1940-47 – Santa Fe System Maps

1947-58 – Ship & Travel

 

Through 1937:  A.T.&S.F.

1938-1943 : A.T.S.F

1944+: ATSF

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of WILLIAM PARDIE
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2020 12:55 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

There are many Santa Fe experts that can confirm this but I have felt that the black roofs came into play around the mid 40's.  I have builders photos of the war emergency box car with rhe mineral brown roof.

 

Bill Pardie

 

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Scott <repairman87@...>

Date: 11/22/20 7:57 AM (GMT-10:00)

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

Well, this one has a mineral red roof on it and a 1948 re-weigh. I guess I have been painting them wrong all this time which is disappointing.  I thought they still had black roofs then.  Certainly make painting then easier I suppose. 

Scott McDonald 


Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Andy, Bob and Friends,

One of these cars used to sit in Jack London Square in Oakland, California. It is now in the Niles Canyon Railway in Fremont.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 1:02 PM Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
A survivor with one side remaining in Santa Fe paint can be found in Southern California's town of Inyokern, just below Ridgecrest at a Hardware and feed store. A high desert community.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Sunday, November 22, 2020, 9:39:51 AM PST, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:



BRIAN PAUL EHNI
 

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/utils/ajaxhelper/?CISOROOT=p15330coll22&CISOPTR=55053&action=2&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=7000&DMHEIGHT=600081

 

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Sunday, November 22, 2020 at 11:39 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/55053/rec/56

Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.

Car built in 1930. The car height was extended with a new steel panel roof and upper side and end panels during a minor rebuilding program in 1941-1944.

Car has a switching tag or card ("52") on the door.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Todd Horton
 

Great photo, did these cars get AB brakes and survive till?

Todd Horton


On Sunday, November 22, 2020, 09:14:49 PM EST, BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...> wrote:


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/utils/ajaxhelper/?CISOROOT=p15330coll22&CISOPTR=55053&action=2&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=7000&DMHEIGHT=600081

 

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Sunday, November 22, 2020 at 11:39 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/55053/rec/56

Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.

Car built in 1930. The car height was extended with a new steel panel roof and upper side and end panels during a minor rebuilding program in 1941-1944.

Car has a switching tag or card ("52") on the door.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Jim Gates
 

The last Bx-12's in revenue service were in 1974. So certainly AB brakes. I believe most of the received steel sheathing.

Jim Gates

On Sunday, November 22, 2020, 10:07:22 PM CST, Todd Horton via groups.io <toddchorton@...> wrote:


Great photo, did these cars get AB brakes and survive till?

Todd Horton


On Sunday, November 22, 2020, 09:14:49 PM EST, BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...> wrote:


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/utils/ajaxhelper/?CISOROOT=p15330coll22&CISOPTR=55053&action=2&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=7000&DMHEIGHT=600081

 

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Sunday, November 22, 2020 at 11:39 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/55053/rec/56

Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.

Car built in 1930. The car height was extended with a new steel panel roof and upper side and end panels during a minor rebuilding program in 1941-1944.

Car has a switching tag or card ("52") on the door.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Thanks, Steve, for a great summary.  Carefully saved this for future reference.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve SANDIFER
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2020 2:51 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

1910-1931:

Mineral Brown – sides, ends, roofs, doors, underframes and trucks on repainted cars.

Black – underframes and trucks on new cars, route card boards.

 

1931-1951

Mineral Brown: sides, ends, and doors, underframes and trucks on repainted cars; wood sheathed roofs, wood running boards, edges of flooring at door openings, roof hatches on convertible stock cars.

Black: underframes and trucks on new cars only, route card boards (not on all cars).

Black Anti-slip – steel or metal sheathed roofs, steel running boards on repainted cars.

 

1951-1980

Mineral brown – sides, ends (most cars) and doors; underframes and trucks on repainted cars, wood sheathed roofs, wood running boards, steel running boards (repainted cars); ends of flooring at door openings, roof hatches on convertible stock cars.

Black: underframes and trucks (new cars only); route card boards (only in the early 50s, not on all cars).

Anti-slip mineral brown: steel or metal-sheathed roofs. Began in 1951 but black or redish brown granules continued to be used on some cars for several years. Anti-slip was discontinued in the late 50s/early 60s because trainmen seldom rode the car tops when in movement.

 

1940-47 – Santa Fe System Maps

1947-58 – Ship & Travel

 

Through 1937:  A.T.&S.F.

1938-1943 : A.T.S.F

1944+: ATSF

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of WILLIAM PARDIE
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2020 12:55 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

There are many Santa Fe experts that can confirm this but I have felt that the black roofs came into play around the mid 40's.  I have builders photos of the war emergency box car with rhe mineral brown roof.

 

Bill Pardie

 

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Scott <repairman87@...>

Date: 11/22/20 7:57 AM (GMT-10:00)

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

Well, this one has a mineral red roof on it and a 1948 re-weigh. I guess I have been painting them wrong all this time which is disappointing.  I thought they still had black roofs then.  Certainly make painting then easier I suppose. 

Scott McDonald 


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Thank you, Brian.  Prior to the photo I’d not noted the legend “ROYAL K BRK REGL” on the side of the car.  This is obviously 1948 or later, but K brakes?  Were they not outlawed by then?  (I admit to not reading all preceding posts about this interesting car!)

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of BRIAN PAUL EHNI
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2020 9:15 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/utils/ajaxhelper/?CISOROOT=p15330coll22&CISOPTR=55053&action=2&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=7000&DMHEIGHT=600081

 

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Sunday, November 22, 2020 at 11:39 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/55053/rec/56

Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.

Car built in 1930. The car height was extended with a new steel panel roof and upper side and end panels during a minor rebuilding program in 1941-1944.

Car has a switching tag or card ("52") on the door.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Paul Doggett
 

Schuyler 

It’s got AB brakes Royal K is the type of adjuster.  K brakes where outlawed in interchange service in or by 1953 it kept getting pushed back,

Paul Doggett.  England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 23 Nov 2020, at 15:53, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:



Thank you, Brian.  Prior to the photo I’d not noted the legend “ROYAL K BRK REGL” on the side of the car.  This is obviously 1948 or later, but K brakes?  Were they not outlawed by then?  (I admit to not reading all preceding posts about this interesting car!)

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of BRIAN PAUL EHNI
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2020 9:15 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/utils/ajaxhelper/?CISOROOT=p15330coll22&CISOPTR=55053&action=2&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=7000&DMHEIGHT=600081

 

 

 

Thanks!
--

<image001.png>

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Sunday, November 22, 2020 at 11:39 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/55053/rec/56

Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.

Car built in 1930. The car height was extended with a new steel panel roof and upper side and end panels during a minor rebuilding program in 1941-1944.

Car has a switching tag or card ("52") on the door.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


al_brown03
 

"K" is the model of the Royal regulator. There's also a type F, I think. The applications I've seen were to AB brakes, although I think they'd work on schedule K brakes if so applied (Royal regulators are a form of slack adjuster).

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


radiodial868
 


Thanks, Steve, for a great summary.  Carefully saved this for future reference.

Schuyler

Me too, Steve, this is nice! Too bad I didn't have this summary this past dozen or so years I've been building Santa Fe resin kits. Westerfield and Sunshine & F&C kit prototype color history were all over the map and many times conflicting.  Looks like I have some paint and lettering touchups to do now.
-------------------
RJ Dial

Mendocino, CA


Steve SANDIFER
 

The roof was raised on these in 1946-1951 (3290 of them) and over 100 lasted into 1965-66. The last ones on the Live List were in 1974. Add the BX-11 to that and the numbers grow to 4550. These were signature cars on the Santa Fe.  (Westerfield 4600, 4700, Dalman trucks)

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Todd Horton via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2020 10:07 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

Great photo, did these cars get AB brakes and survive till?

 

Todd Horton

 

 

On Sunday, November 22, 2020, 09:14:49 PM EST, BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...> wrote:

 

 

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/utils/ajaxhelper/?CISOROOT=p15330coll22&CISOPTR=55053&action=2&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=7000&DMHEIGHT=600081

 

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Sunday, November 22, 2020 at 11:39 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/55053/rec/56

Click on the arrows in the upper right hand corner of the photo to enlarge it and scroll to enlarge it further.

Car built in 1930. The car height was extended with a new steel panel roof and upper side and end panels during a minor rebuilding program in 1941-1944.

Car has a switching tag or card ("52") on the door.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Steve SANDIFER
 

It’s all in the Santa Fe Painting and Lettering Guide, now officially Out of Print, but being updated and reprinted with more photos and details.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of radiodial868
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 10:09 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: ATSF Boxcar 212625 Bx-12 (1948)

 

 

Thanks, Steve, for a great summary.  Carefully saved this for future reference.

Schuyler

Me too, Steve, this is nice! Too bad I didn't have this summary this past dozen or so years I've been building Santa Fe resin kits. Westerfield and Sunshine & F&C kit prototype color history were all over the map and many times conflicting.  Looks like I have some paint and lettering touchups to do now.
-------------------
RJ Dial

Mendocino, CA


peteraue
 

The car on the photograph has AB brakes. You can clearly see the
transversal mounted reservoir on the photograph with the 3-1-48 brake
service stencil.  This type of mounting was common practice on Santa Fe
freight cars.
Peter Aue