Photo: CB&Q Livestock Car 58587D
Photo: CB&Q Livestock Car 58587D
A double deck car. Build date appears to be September 1924. Photo probably is from 1963 or later but otherwise would fit the era of this group. Location unknown.
Photo from the Richard Hendrickson collection.
Bob Chaparro
Moderator
Railway Bull Shippers Group
Andrews trucks were reused under new PRR open hoppers built in
1961. These cars continued into the PC merger.
The CB&Q used Andrews sideframes to replace soon to be banned Arch Bar trucks circa 1938 on a number of cars according to CB&Q car diagrams. The advantage being that the Andrews side frames could use the Arch Bar truck's journal boxes. The cars that received these changes kept them until retirement.
Of the major middle of the country stockyards, the CB&Q only
served the Denver Union stockyards directly. The rest of the major
stockyards required interchange. So a CB&Q stock car was
allowed in interchange with these Andrews trucks past the end of
this list's date.
Bill Hirt
Comments from the CB& Q group:
CB&Q Class SM-16
Car has Andrews trucks, which were banned from interchange in 1958, so if the photo date to 1963 the car was limited to use on the CB&Q. But it has been converted to AB brakes.
Hello Bill and list,
I would like to address the second part of Bills comment, about the CBQ only serving Denver stockyards directly.
I believe in Chicago that Burlington trains would directly deliver their loaded stock cars to the union stockyard.
I know Milwaukee road stock trains did run directly into the Chicago Union stockyards. I would imagine there was some trackage rights arrangement that allowed the trains to directly deliver loaded stock to the yards. I would assume all of the other Chicago railroads could also deliver their stock directly to the yards.
I have dispatcher sheets that show Sunday afternoons with many stock trains coming into Chicago on the Milwaukee road and then with a mainline crew change in bensenville running directly into the Chicago Union stock yards.
While the main line railroads delivered their stock trains directly to the stockyards, the local terminal railroad may have switched the stock cars to the unloading ramps.
I would assume there were other arrangements in places like Sioux City, Omaha and Kansas City stockyards for other direct delivery of stock trains.
Ted
--
Sent from Outlook Email App for Android
Andrews trucks were reused under new PRR open hoppers built in 1961. These cars continued into the PC merger.
The CB&Q used Andrews sideframes to replace soon to be banned Arch Bar trucks circa 1938 on a number of cars according to CB&Q car diagrams. The advantage being that the Andrews side frames could use the Arch Bar truck's journal boxes. The cars that received these changes kept them until retirement.
Of the major middle of the country stockyards, the CB&Q only served the Denver Union stockyards directly. The rest of the major stockyards required interchange. So a CB&Q stock car was allowed in interchange with these Andrews trucks past the end of this list's date.
Bill Hirt
On 3/10/2023 12:18 PM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io wrote:
Comments from the CB& Q group:
CB&Q Class SM-16
Car has Andrews trucks, which were banned from interchange in 1958, so if the photo date to 1963 the car was limited to use on the CB&Q. But it has been converted to AB brakes.
"Bob, there are two issues in this thread, one is the CB&Q Andrews truck, which is a 40 ton truck, and the other is the PRR Crown truck (resembles Andrews but larger) which is a 70 ton truck (Crown also made 100 ton trucks for gondolas and hoppers). The Q didn’t use 70 ton trucks under stock cars. Besides Andrews 40 ton trucks, the CB&Q used Barber double truss lateral motion spring plank 40 ton trucks on some SM-18 stock cars. I don’t have information on the SM-19 stock cars immediately available, but I’m pretty sure they had 40 ton trucks, probably double truss spring plankless on most cars, but I have one photo of a SM-19A with Andrews 40 ton trucks taken in the 1960s (3-6?, the second digit of reweigh date isn’t legible). It has the modernized lettering, and probably Chinese Red paint (hard to tell because it’s heavily weathered). Chinese Red wasn’t used until 1959, so that supports a 1960s photo data. I don’t think the CB&Q ever used Crown trucks."
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
CB&Q "Chinese Red" paint appeared in May 1958, if not earlier.
On 3/11/2023 2:02 PM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io wrote:
Nelson Moyer commented:
"Bob, there are two issues in this thread, one is the CB&Q Andrews truck, which is a 40 ton truck, and the other is the PRR Crown truck (resembles Andrews but larger) which is a 70 ton truck (Crown also made 100 ton trucks for gondolas and hoppers). The Q didn’t use 70 ton trucks under stock cars. Besides Andrews 40 ton trucks, the CB&Q used Barber double truss lateral motion spring plank 40 ton trucks on some SM-18 stock cars. I don’t have information on the SM-19 stock cars immediately available, but I’m pretty sure they had 40 ton trucks, probably double truss spring plankless on most cars, but I have one photo of a SM-19A with Andrews 40 ton trucks taken in the 1960s (3-6?, the second digit of reweigh date isn’t legible). It has the modernized lettering, and probably Chinese Red paint (hard to tell because it’s heavily weathered). Chinese Red wasn’t used until 1959, so that supports a 1960s photo data. I don’t think the CB&Q ever used Crown trucks."
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
The first appearance of the Chinese red scheme was on class XM-32F box car #62500 when it was displayed at the Havelock shops on February 3, 1958, followed by the other 1499 cars of the class. Also built at Havelock in 1958, and placed
into service displaying the same colours, were the first 90 mill gondolas #82550-82639 (GM-4A), 50 mill gondolas #197180-197229 (GM-3D) and depressed centre flatcar #91875 (FD-1).
Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2023 10:08 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: CB&Q Livestock Car 58587D
CB&Q "Chinese Red" paint appeared in May 1958, if not earlier.
--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
_._,_._,_
When were motors first painted Chinese red?
Nelson Moyer
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2023 9:56 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: CB&Q Livestock Car 58587D
The first appearance of the Chinese red scheme was on class XM-32F box car #62500 when it was displayed at the Havelock shops on February 3, 1958, followed by the other 1499 cars of the class. Also built at Havelock in
1958, and placed into service displaying the same colours, were the first 90 mill gondolas #82550-82639 (GM-4A), 50 mill gondolas #197180-197229 (GM-3D) and depressed centre flatcar #91875 (FD-1).
Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ
From:
main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2023 10:08 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: CB&Q Livestock Car 58587D
CB&Q "Chinese Red" paint appeared in May 1958, if not earlier.
--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Weren't the EMD SD-24s the first ? When was that ?
On 3/12/2023 9:21 AM, Nelson Moyer wrote:
When were motors first painted Chinese red?
Nelson Moyer
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Don’t know, time stopped for me in 1953. I’m hoping Rupert will have the answer.
Nelson Moyer
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2023 7:24 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: CB&Q Livestock Car 58587D
Weren't the EMD SD-24s the first ? When was that ?
On 3/12/2023 9:21 AM, Nelson Moyer wrote:
When were motors first painted Chinese red?
Nelson Moyer
--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
The SD-24s were the first new units delivered in Chinese Red.
Bill Hirt
Don’t know, time stopped for me in 1953. I’m hoping Rupert will have the answer.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2023 7:24 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: CB&Q Livestock Car 58587D
Weren't the EMD SD-24s the first ? When was that ?
On 3/12/2023 9:21 AM, Nelson Moyer wrote:When were motors first painted Chinese red?
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/PRRTruckTypes-C422800.html
Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV
"According to the car diagrams, these are the trucks for the SM-19 class:
SM-19 class series 52000-52149. CB&Q truck type 62 which is a 40 ton steel double-truss Barber Lateral Motion (Spring Plank).
SM-19A class series 52500-52699. CB&Q truck type 80 which is 40 ton Scullin Self Aligning (Spring Plankless) truck.
SM-19B class:
Series 52700-52999. CB&Q truck type 54-A which is 40 ton Andrews type cast sideframe. Specifically states in truck diagram this truck replaces Arch-Bar trucks. The journal boxes could be reused from Arch Bar trucks with this sideframe. I suspect these journal boxes were reclaimed from scrapped cars with Arch Bar trucks considering these cars were built post World War II.
Series 53000-53099. CB&Q truck type 76 which is a 40 ton Barber S-2-A (Spring Plankless) truck.
Series 53100-53199. CB&Q truck type 77 which is a 40 ton ASF A-3 Ride Control truck.
SM-19C class series 50500-50599. CB&Q truck type 79-C which is a 50 ton Scullin A-3 Ride Control (Spring Plankless) truck. This was a double deck car series."
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV