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Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars

Photo taken at the Los Angeles & Salt Lake Railroad Yard, Los Angeles:

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mtcPFD6LBeI/TZUQcJ50CPI/AAAAAAAAN8s/Vj20tEdXvTw/s1600/1917-03-24_FortMacArthurGun-LAYards-SaltLakeRR_01c.jpg

Caption:

1917: 14” diameter gun-tube (weighing 110,000 pounds) for the new “state-of-the-art” port fortifications at San Pedro’s Fort MacArthur (established 10/31/1914) are a “tourist attraction” at the downtown LA yards of the Salt Lake railway; when each gun arrived in San Pedro it had to be slowly and painstakingly snaked up San Pedro hill (sometimes moving only a few feet in a day) to the Upper Reservation using house mover dollies which left increasingly deep gouges in the pavement; the land for the Upper Reservation had been purchased in 1910 from William G. Kerckhoff and George H. Peck for $249,000—about $31.6 million in 2009 dollars using the nominal GDP per capita index; the four 14” gun-tubes were mounted on disappearing carriages at Batteries Osgood-Farley and Leary-Merriam (built at a cost of $462,788, or $83.4 million in 2009 dollars using the relative share of GDP index); each of the 14” guns could fire a 1,560-pound projectile 14 miles; the number 2 gun at Battery Osgood-Farley was mounted on 06/30/1917 and by the time the number 1 gun was installed on 07/31/1923 the installations were already obsolete; the big guns were rarely fired, due to the damage they caused to San Pedro homes and businesses, before they were cut up for scrap in the mid 1940s.

Installed Gun:

https://www.gettyimages.be/detail/nieuwsfoto%27s/army-personnel-standing-with-a-14-inch-railway-gun-at-ft-nieuwsfotos/50622595

Today Ft. MacArthur is home to the N scale Belmont Shore Model Railroad Club and the O scale Angels' Gate Hi-Railers club. Each club has its own building.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Bruce Smith
 

Bob,

I don't think that the gun tube on the PRR F22 flat cars is the same as the "installed" photo. I'm away from my sources, but the latter guns at Fort McArthur were railway mounts, as is shown in your second photo, whereas the gun tube on the flats is most likely for a fixed mount. IIRC, the two railway guns for Fort McArthur were completed and shipped to the fort on their own chassis and wheels.

Regards,
Bruce Smith, temporarily in Rochester New York (Shee-eet, what is that white stuff on the ground????)


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb@...>
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2019 12:21 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars
 

Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars

Photo taken at the Los Angeles & Salt Lake Railroad Yard, Los Angeles:

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mtcPFD6LBeI/TZUQcJ50CPI/AAAAAAAAN8s/Vj20tEdXvTw/s1600/1917-03-24_FortMacArthurGun-LAYards-SaltLakeRR_01c.jpg

Caption:

1917: 14” diameter gun-tube (weighing 110,000 pounds) for the new “state-of-the-art” port fortifications at San Pedro’s Fort MacArthur (established 10/31/1914) are a “tourist attraction” at the downtown LA yards of the Salt Lake railway; when each gun arrived in San Pedro it had to be slowly and painstakingly snaked up San Pedro hill (sometimes moving only a few feet in a day) to the Upper Reservation using house mover dollies which left increasingly deep gouges in the pavement; the land for the Upper Reservation had been purchased in 1910 from William G. Kerckhoff and George H. Peck for $249,000—about $31.6 million in 2009 dollars using the nominal GDP per capita index; the four 14” gun-tubes were mounted on disappearing carriages at Batteries Osgood-Farley and Leary-Merriam (built at a cost of $462,788, or $83.4 million in 2009 dollars using the relative share of GDP index); each of the 14” guns could fire a 1,560-pound projectile 14 miles; the number 2 gun at Battery Osgood-Farley was mounted on 06/30/1917 and by the time the number 1 gun was installed on 07/31/1923 the installations were already obsolete; the big guns were rarely fired, due to the damage they caused to San Pedro homes and businesses, before they were cut up for scrap in the mid 1940s.

Installed Gun:

https://www.gettyimages.be/detail/nieuwsfoto%27s/army-personnel-standing-with-a-14-inch-railway-gun-at-ft-nieuwsfotos/50622595

Today Ft. MacArthur is home to the N scale Belmont Shore Model Railroad Club and the O scale Angels' Gate Hi-Railers club. Each club has its own building.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Bill Daniels
 

Bruce, that white stuff is where the scenery guys hadn’t gotten to yet. Come back in the spring and it’ll be done and all green. 

Bill Daniels
Santa Rosa, California 


On Nov 16, 2019, at 5:52 AM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


Bob,

I don't think that the gun tube on the PRR F22 flat cars is the same as the "installed" photo. I'm away from my sources, but the latter guns at Fort McArthur were railway mounts, as is shown in your second photo, whereas the gun tube on the flats is most likely for a fixed mount. IIRC, the two railway guns for Fort McArthur were completed and shipped to the fort on their own chassis and wheels.

Regards,
Bruce Smith, temporarily in Rochester New York (Shee-eet, what is that white stuff on the ground????)

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb@...>
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2019 12:21 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars
 

Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars

Photo taken at the Los Angeles & Salt Lake Railroad Yard, Los Angeles:

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mtcPFD6LBeI/TZUQcJ50CPI/AAAAAAAAN8s/Vj20tEdXvTw/s1600/1917-03-24_FortMacArthurGun-LAYards-SaltLakeRR_01c.jpg

Caption:

1917: 14” diameter gun-tube (weighing 110,000 pounds) for the new “state-of-the-art” port fortifications at San Pedro’s Fort MacArthur (established 10/31/1914) are a “tourist attraction” at the downtown LA yards of the Salt Lake railway; when each gun arrived in San Pedro it had to be slowly and painstakingly snaked up San Pedro hill (sometimes moving only a few feet in a day) to the Upper Reservation using house mover dollies which left increasingly deep gouges in the pavement; the land for the Upper Reservation had been purchased in 1910 from William G. Kerckhoff and George H. Peck for $249,000—about $31.6 million in 2009 dollars using the nominal GDP per capita index; the four 14” gun-tubes were mounted on disappearing carriages at Batteries Osgood-Farley and Leary-Merriam (built at a cost of $462,788, or $83.4 million in 2009 dollars using the relative share of GDP index); each of the 14” guns could fire a 1,560-pound projectile 14 miles; the number 2 gun at Battery Osgood-Farley was mounted on 06/30/1917 and by the time the number 1 gun was installed on 07/31/1923 the installations were already obsolete; the big guns were rarely fired, due to the damage they caused to San Pedro homes and businesses, before they were cut up for scrap in the mid 1940s.

Installed Gun:

https://www.gettyimages.be/detail/nieuwsfoto%27s/army-personnel-standing-with-a-14-inch-railway-gun-at-ft-nieuwsfotos/50622595

Today Ft. MacArthur is home to the N scale Belmont Shore Model Railroad Club and the O scale Angels' Gate Hi-Railers club. Each club has its own building.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Bob Webber
 

Yes, 2 of the San Pedro guns were 14 inch model 1920 (RG) railway guns - a ring (not unlike a turntable) was prepared, trucks rolled away and ...instant emplacement.   But there were a half dozen Taft period batteries at Fort MacArthur.  4 were of the 14" (RG) disappearing model.  They also had mortars and smaller guns.

Note that the railway guns and the disappearing models arrived by freight trains.  The guns typically built on the East coast & proofed there, (which means some assembly required upon arrival).  San Pedro also had one of the larger cranes and facilities for battleships and lesser - which meant, just as for Mare Island, Puget Sound & San Francisco  (Hunter's Point) , there were  semi-regular shipments of tubes, barrels liners, etc.   The Oregon and most of these other areas had various ilk of weaponry that required training and replacement.  So that gun flat (or pairs of them) were seen on Sherman Hill.  This is especially true as ships were brought in to these yards in the 30s for modernization.  Barrels were frequently rotated, and, not unlike trucks on some cars, they rarely matched the carriage (serial numbers). 

That white stuff is used to forestall hurricanes & tornadoes, powder liberally sprinkled.  Note it can clump and become slippery. ..


At 07:51 AM 11/16/2019, Bruce Smith wrote:
Bob,

I don't think that the gun tube on the PRR F22 flat cars is the same as the "installed" photo. I'm away from my sources, but the latter guns at Fort McArthur were railway mounts, as is shown in your second photo, whereas the gun tube on the flats is most likely for a fixed mount. IIRC, the two railway guns for Fort McArthur were completed and shipped to the fort on their own chassis and wheels.

Regards,
Bruce Smith, temporarily in Rochester New York (Shee-eet, what is that white stuff on the ground????)

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb@...>
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2019 12:21 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars

 

Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars

Photo taken at the Los Angeles & Salt Lake Railroad Yard, Los Angeles:

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mtcPFD6LBeI/TZUQcJ50CPI/AAAAAAAAN8s/Vj20tEdXvTw/s1600/1917-03-24_FortMacArthurGun-LAYards-SaltLakeRR_01c.jpg

Caption:

1917: 14” diameter gun-tube (weighing 110,000 pounds) for the new “state-of-the-art” port fortifications at San Pedro’s Fort MacArthur (established 10/31/1914) are a “tourist attraction” at the downtown LA yards of the Salt Lake railway; when each gun arrived in San Pedro it had to be slowly and painstakingly snaked up San Pedro hill (sometimes moving only a few feet in a day) to the Upper Reservation using house mover dollies which left increasingly deep gouges in the pavement; the land for the Upper Reservation had been purchased in 1910 from William G. Kerckhoff and George H. Peck for $249,000—about $31.6 million in 2009 dollars using the nominal GDP per capita index; the four 14” gun-tubes were mounted on disappearing carriages at Batteries Osgood-Farley and Leary-Merriam (built at a cost of $462,788, or $83.4 million in 2009 dollars using the relative share of GDP index); each of the 14” guns could fire a 1,560-pound projectile 14 miles; the number 2 gun at Battery Osgood-Farley was mounted on 06/30/1917 and by the time the number 1 gun was installed on 07/31/1923 the installations were already obsolete; the big guns were rarely fired, due to the damage they caused to San Pedro homes and businesses, before they were cut up for scrap in the mid 1940s.

Installed Gun:

https://www.gettyimages.be/detail/nieuwsfoto%27s/army-personnel-standing-with-a-14-inch-railway-gun-at-ft-nieuwsfotos/50622595

Today Ft. MacArthur is home to the N scale Belmont Shore Model Railroad Club and the O scale Angels' Gate Hi-Railers club. Each club has its own building.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Bob Webber

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

Note the interesting cradle, possibly specific to this particular model gun. I would suggest the cradle went back on the same flat car pair for reuse to where the gun was proofed and stored. By the date of the photo, that should have been the Naval Proving Ground at Indian Head, Maryland.
Yours Aye,

Garth Groff


On Sat, Nov 16, 2019 at 1:21 AM Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: Gun Barrel On Flat Cars

Photo taken at the Los Angeles & Salt Lake Railroad Yard, Los Angeles:

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mtcPFD6LBeI/TZUQcJ50CPI/AAAAAAAAN8s/Vj20tEdXvTw/s1600/1917-03-24_FortMacArthurGun-LAYards-SaltLakeRR_01c.jpg

Caption:

1917: 14” diameter gun-tube (weighing 110,000 pounds) for the new “state-of-the-art” port fortifications at San Pedro’s Fort MacArthur (established 10/31/1914) are a “tourist attraction” at the downtown LA yards of the Salt Lake railway; when each gun arrived in San Pedro it had to be slowly and painstakingly snaked up San Pedro hill (sometimes moving only a few feet in a day) to the Upper Reservation using house mover dollies which left increasingly deep gouges in the pavement; the land for the Upper Reservation had been purchased in 1910 from William G. Kerckhoff and George H. Peck for $249,000—about $31.6 million in 2009 dollars using the nominal GDP per capita index; the four 14” gun-tubes were mounted on disappearing carriages at Batteries Osgood-Farley and Leary-Merriam (built at a cost of $462,788, or $83.4 million in 2009 dollars using the relative share of GDP index); each of the 14” guns could fire a 1,560-pound projectile 14 miles; the number 2 gun at Battery Osgood-Farley was mounted on 06/30/1917 and by the time the number 1 gun was installed on 07/31/1923 the installations were already obsolete; the big guns were rarely fired, due to the damage they caused to San Pedro homes and businesses, before they were cut up for scrap in the mid 1940s.

Installed Gun:

https://www.gettyimages.be/detail/nieuwsfoto%27s/army-personnel-standing-with-a-14-inch-railway-gun-at-ft-nieuwsfotos/50622595

Today Ft. MacArthur is home to the N scale Belmont Shore Model Railroad Club and the O scale Angels' Gate Hi-Railers club. Each club has its own building.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

spsalso
 

There is a book by Charles S. Small called "California's Railway Guns".  It is a 90 page paperback.  There are drawings and photos.  The photo reproduction is not great.

A gun similar to the one in the second photo is shown on the cover of the book with its railway trucks.  There was a span bolster with two six-wheel trucks on the breech end, and a span bolster with two eight-wheel trucks on the other end.

It (the book, not the gun) is available from Amazon for about $1000 (plus $100 shipping).  And elsewhere, for substantially less.


Ed

Edward Sutorik