Photo: Pickle Car - further question


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Excellent photo of this style of pickle car.  However, it appears that this shipper and service was in the west, west of Chicago.  Were there cars of this style in the northeast?

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2021 12:14 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car

 

Photo: Pickle Car

Photo from the Industrial History Blog:

https://tinyurl.com/5cfyuvsp

Description:

“Many farmers even in South Dakota where this photo was taken grew more than grain crops. Here small cucumbers are being loaded on a "pickle car" which will be hauled into Chicago by the C&NW to be made into pickles. The photo was made at the request of the C&NW publicity department sometime in the 1930s. "Squire Dingee" had pickling plants all over the Midwest in those days.”

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


David Leider
 

Sguire-Dingee was a Chicago company, but had salting stations all over the midwest as w3ell as subsidaries in other parts of the US. Pickle cars of this type were used all over to pick up salted pickles for further processing
David Leider


Eric Hansmann
 

David,

I'll have three pickle and food production plants to serve on my future layout with HJ Heinz, Lutz & Schramm, and Cruikshank Brothers. Have you stumbled across details for cars that transported pickles from the field plants to Lutz & Schramm and Cruikshank Brothers in Pittsburgh, Penna.?



Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On 06/23/2021 9:08 PM David Leider <sooauthor@...> wrote:


Sguire-Dingee was a Chicago company, but had salting stations all over the midwest as w3ell as subsidaries in other parts of the US. Pickle cars of this type were used all over to pick up salted pickles for further processing
David Leider



 

Eric: do you have David J. Leider’s “Pickle and Vinegar Makers of the Midwest”? I don’t think it applies directly to your situation, but it has lots of info on plant layouts, photos of plants, cars, etc.

 

I’ll lend you my copy if you like.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 11:57 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car - further question

 

David,

 

I'll have three pickle and food production plants to serve on my future layout with HJ Heinz, Lutz & Schramm, and Cruikshank Brothers. Have you stumbled across details for cars that transported pickles from the field plants to Lutz & Schramm and Cruikshank Brothers in Pittsburgh, Penna.?

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

 

On 06/23/2021 9:08 PM David Leider <sooauthor@...> wrote:

 

 

Sguire-Dingee was a Chicago company, but had salting stations all over the midwest as w3ell as subsidaries in other parts of the US. Pickle cars of this type were used all over to pick up salted pickles for further processing
David Leider

 

 


Schuyler Larrabee
 

My original follow-on question to the photo that started this thread was intended to suggest some other users of the circular tub variety of pickle cars that would have been seen in the northeast, PA, NY, and neighboring states..  I was, perhaps, a little to elliptical in my rather vague question.  Any suggestions now that I’m being more specific?

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of BRIAN PAUL EHNI
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2021 2:50 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car - further question

 

Eric: do you have David J. Leider’s “Pickle and Vinegar Makers of the Midwest”? I don’t think it applies directly to your situation, but it has lots of info on plant layouts, photos of plants, cars, etc.

 

I’ll lend you my copy if you like.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 11:57 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car - further question

 

David,

 

I'll have three pickle and food production plants to serve on my future layout with HJ Heinz, Lutz & Schramm, and Cruikshank Brothers. Have you stumbled across details for cars that transported pickles from the field plants to Lutz & Schramm and Cruikshank Brothers in Pittsburgh, Penna.?

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

 

On 06/23/2021 9:08 PM David Leider <sooauthor@...> wrote:

 

 

Sguire-Dingee was a Chicago company, but had salting stations all over the midwest as w3ell as subsidaries in other parts of the US. Pickle cars of this type were used all over to pick up salted pickles for further processing
David Leider

 

 


 

Heinz had such cars, and they were in Pittsburgh.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io" <schuyler.larrabee@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 2:10 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car - further question

 

My original follow-on question to the photo that started this thread was intended to suggest some other users of the circular tub variety of pickle cars that would have been seen in the northeast, PA, NY, and neighboring states..  I was, perhaps, a little to elliptical in my rather vague question.  Any suggestions now that I’m being more specific?

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of BRIAN PAUL EHNI
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2021 2:50 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car - further question

 

Eric: do you have David J. Leider’s “Pickle and Vinegar Makers of the Midwest”? I don’t think it applies directly to your situation, but it has lots of info on plant layouts, photos of plants, cars, etc.

 

I’ll lend you my copy if you like.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 11:57 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car - further question

 

David,

 

I'll have three pickle and food production plants to serve on my future layout with HJ Heinz, Lutz & Schramm, and Cruikshank Brothers. Have you stumbled across details for cars that transported pickles from the field plants to Lutz & Schramm and Cruikshank Brothers in Pittsburgh, Penna.?

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

 

On 06/23/2021 9:08 PM David Leider <sooauthor@...> wrote:

 

 

Sguire-Dingee was a Chicago company, but had salting stations all over the midwest as w3ell as subsidaries in other parts of the US. Pickle cars of this type were used all over to pick up salted pickles for further processing
David Leider

 

 


 

Correction. The Heinz cars were tubs, but this photo shows they may have been enclosed.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io" <schuyler.larrabee@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 2:10 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car - further question

 

My original follow-on question to the photo that started this thread was intended to suggest some other users of the circular tub variety of pickle cars that would have been seen in the northeast, PA, NY, and neighboring states..  I was, perhaps, a little to elliptical in my rather vague question.  Any suggestions now that I’m being more specific?

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of BRIAN PAUL EHNI
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2021 2:50 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car - further question

 

Eric: do you have David J. Leider’s “Pickle and Vinegar Makers of the Midwest”? I don’t think it applies directly to your situation, but it has lots of info on plant layouts, photos of plants, cars, etc.

 

I’ll lend you my copy if you like.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 11:57 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car - further question

 

David,

 

I'll have three pickle and food production plants to serve on my future layout with HJ Heinz, Lutz & Schramm, and Cruikshank Brothers. Have you stumbled across details for cars that transported pickles from the field plants to Lutz & Schramm and Cruikshank Brothers in Pittsburgh, Penna.?

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

 

On 06/23/2021 9:08 PM David Leider <sooauthor@...> wrote:

 

 

Sguire-Dingee was a Chicago company, but had salting stations all over the midwest as w3ell as subsidaries in other parts of the US. Pickle cars of this type were used all over to pick up salted pickles for further processing
David Leider

 

 


 

The book I mentioned has a drawing for an open side tub car for L.. Forman & Sons, Pittsford, NY

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io" <schuyler.larrabee@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 2:10 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car - further question

 

My original follow-on question to the photo that started this thread was intended to suggest some other users of the circular tub variety of pickle cars that would have been seen in the northeast, PA, NY, and neighboring states..  I was, perhaps, a little to elliptical in my rather vague question.  Any suggestions now that I’m being more specific?

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of BRIAN PAUL EHNI
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2021 2:50 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car - further question

 

Eric: do you have David J. Leider’s “Pickle and Vinegar Makers of the Midwest”? I don’t think it applies directly to your situation, but it has lots of info on plant layouts, photos of plants, cars, etc.

 

I’ll lend you my copy if you like.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 11:57 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car - further question

 

David,

 

I'll have three pickle and food production plants to serve on my future layout with HJ Heinz, Lutz & Schramm, and Cruikshank Brothers. Have you stumbled across details for cars that transported pickles from the field plants to Lutz & Schramm and Cruikshank Brothers in Pittsburgh, Penna.?

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

 

On 06/23/2021 9:08 PM David Leider <sooauthor@...> wrote:

 

 

Sguire-Dingee was a Chicago company, but had salting stations all over the midwest as w3ell as subsidaries in other parts of the US. Pickle cars of this type were used all over to pick up salted pickles for further processing
David Leider

 

 


 

The book has a photo of an open side HJH tub car.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "BRIAN PAUL EHNI via groups.io" <bpehni@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 2:15 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car - further question

 

Correction. The Heinz cars were tubs, but this photo shows they may have been enclosed.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io" <schuyler.larrabee@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 2:10 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car - further question

 

My original follow-on question to the photo that started this thread was intended to suggest some other users of the circular tub variety of pickle cars that would have been seen in the northeast, PA, NY, and neighboring states..  I was, perhaps, a little to elliptical in my rather vague question.  Any suggestions now that I’m being more specific?

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of BRIAN PAUL EHNI
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2021 2:50 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car - further question

 

Eric: do you have David J. Leider’s “Pickle and Vinegar Makers of the Midwest”? I don’t think it applies directly to your situation, but it has lots of info on plant layouts, photos of plants, cars, etc.

 

I’ll lend you my copy if you like.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 11:57 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car - further question

 

David,

 

I'll have three pickle and food production plants to serve on my future layout with HJ Heinz, Lutz & Schramm, and Cruikshank Brothers. Have you stumbled across details for cars that transported pickles from the field plants to Lutz & Schramm and Cruikshank Brothers in Pittsburgh, Penna.?

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

 

On 06/23/2021 9:08 PM David Leider <sooauthor@...> wrote:

 

 

Sguire-Dingee was a Chicago company, but had salting stations all over the midwest as w3ell as subsidaries in other parts of the US. Pickle cars of this type were used all over to pick up salted pickles for further processing
David Leider

 

 


Kenneth Montero
 

FWIW, Athearn made a pickle car that could be built with exposed tubs or enclosed tubs. They were lettered for H.J.Heinz. I don't know how close it was to any prototype.

Ken Montero 



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...>
Date: 6/24/21 3:15 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car - further question

Correction. The Heinz cars were tubs, but this photo shows they may have been enclosed.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io" <schuyler.larrabee@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 2:10 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car - further question

 

My original follow-on question to the photo that started this thread was intended to suggest some other users of the circular tub variety of pickle cars that would have been seen in the northeast, PA, NY, and neighboring states..  I was, perhaps, a little to elliptical in my rather vague question.  Any suggestions now that I’m being more specific?

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of BRIAN PAUL EHNI
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2021 2:50 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car - further question

 

Eric: do you have David J. Leider’s “Pickle and Vinegar Makers of the Midwest”? I don’t think it applies directly to your situation, but it has lots of info on plant layouts, photos of plants, cars, etc.

 

I’ll lend you my copy if you like.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 11:57 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car - further question

 

David,

 

I'll have three pickle and food production plants to serve on my future layout with HJ Heinz, Lutz & Schramm, and Cruikshank Brothers. Have you stumbled across details for cars that transported pickles from the field plants to Lutz & Schramm and Cruikshank Brothers in Pittsburgh, Penna.?

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

 

On 06/23/2021 9:08 PM David Leider <sooauthor@...> wrote:

 

 

Sguire-Dingee was a Chicago company, but had salting stations all over the midwest as w3ell as subsidaries in other parts of the US. Pickle cars of this type were used all over to pick up salted pickles for further processing
David Leider

 

 


Frank Pearsall
 

Good morning all:

I have a two page set of 1/4” drawings  for (1) H.J. Heinz Pickle Tank Car with enclosed tops (dated April 19, 1941) and (2) H.J. Heinz Vinegar Tank Car (dated May 7, 1941). The drawings are from the H.J. Heinz Company itself and are labeled “…for model construction”.

Back in the 1980s, when NMRA Sigs were all the big rage, there was an H.J. Heinz one for the pickle tank cars. I think we had a kinda-sorta newsletter and used to have informal get-togethers at NMRA nationals. I went down to my Jack Benny sub-basement and looked in my old archives, but couldn’t find anything. There might have been 10 or so guys in the group. The  only one I can recall right now was Al Westerfield.

Frank A. Pearsall
Brevard, N.C.

On Jun 25, 2021, at 12:07 AM, Kenneth Montero <va661midlo@...> wrote:

FWIW, Athearn made a pickle car that could be built with exposed tubs or enclosed tubs. They were lettered for H.J.Heinz. I don't know how close it was to any prototype.

Ken Montero 

-------- Original message --------
From: BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...>
Date: 6/24/21 3:15 PM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car - further question

Correction. The Heinz cars were tubs, but this photo shows they may have been enclosed.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni



mel perry
 

there was also a web site dedicated to
the boxcar/reefer of HJH, but that has
long since disappeared
mel perry


On Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 1:54 AM Frank Pearsall <plans@...> wrote:
Good morning all:

I have a two page set of 1/4” drawings  for (1) H.J. Heinz Pickle Tank Car with enclosed tops (dated April 19, 1941) and (2) H.J. Heinz Vinegar Tank Car (dated May 7, 1941). The drawings are from the H.J. Heinz Company itself and are labeled “…for model construction”.

Back in the 1980s, when NMRA Sigs were all the big rage, there was an H.J. Heinz one for the pickle tank cars. I think we had a kinda-sorta newsletter and used to have informal get-togethers at NMRA nationals. I went down to my Jack Benny sub-basement and looked in my old archives, but couldn’t find anything. There might have been 10 or so guys in the group. The  only one I can recall right now was Al Westerfield.

Frank A. Pearsall
Brevard, N.C.

On Jun 25, 2021, at 12:07 AM, Kenneth Montero <va661midlo@...> wrote:

FWIW, Athearn made a pickle car that could be built with exposed tubs or enclosed tubs. They were lettered for H.J.Heinz. I don't know how close it was to any prototype.

Ken Montero 

-------- Original message --------
From: BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...>
Date: 6/24/21 3:15 PM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car - further question

Correction. The Heinz cars were tubs, but this photo shows they may have been enclosed.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni



Clarence Zink
 

Was that old Athearn "blue box" pickle car kit from the 1960's or so anywhere near correct?

CRZ


Eric Hansmann
 

Indeed, I do have David’s fine book. I should have checked that before posting but  my brain was addled after spending four days with my 2.5 year old grand daughter. I even forgot to reference my 1926 modeling window.

 

David Leider’s book notes that Lutz & Schramm had ten pickle tank cars and there are a couple of photos on page 68. Oddly, they are not listed in the January 1925 and October 1926 digital ORER issues at hand. David notes that the earliest L&S cars were similar to the early Heinz cars, so that’s an option for a Westerfield kit if a prototype photo surfaces.

 

Cruikshank Brothers was the smallest of the three operations served by the B&O Allegheny Yard branch. A few cars show up on the pickle tank car owner table on page 132, but  they are later in the 1930s. It would seem odd, to me, for a Heinz or L&S pickle tank car to deliver product to Cruikshank. How did smaller operations receive their pickles? Libby (33 cars) and Squire Dingee (15) had the next largest 1926 fleets after Heinz (65). L&S had the fourth largest of that time with ten cars (as per the pickle tank car owner table in the book).

 

I have the Heinz color folio with plans that was mentioned on another email. The plans are colors will be helpful in upgrading a few Athearn cars I recently bought. I haven’t sat down with a scale ruler to check dimensions on those, yet.

 

I was just thinking ahead for upcoming freight car fleet needs as eleven cars are nearing the weathering stages. Many thanks for all of the prominent pickle posts. They perked up my day!

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of BRIAN PAUL EHNI
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2021 1:50 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car - further question

 

Eric: do you have David J. Leider’s “Pickle and Vinegar Makers of the Midwest”? I don’t think it applies directly to your situation, but it has lots of info on plant layouts, photos of plants, cars, etc.

 

I’ll lend you my copy if you like.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 11:57 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car - further question

 

David,

 

I'll have three pickle and food production plants to serve on my future layout with HJ Heinz, Lutz & Schramm, and Cruikshank Brothers. Have you stumbled across details for cars that transported pickles from the field plants to Lutz & Schramm and Cruikshank Brothers in Pittsburgh, Penna.?

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

 

On 06/23/2021 9:08 PM David Leider <sooauthor@...> wrote:

 

 

Sguire-Dingee was a Chicago company, but had salting stations all over the midwest as w3ell as subsidaries in other parts of the US. Pickle cars of this type were used all over to pick up salted pickles for further processing
David Leider

 

 


Eric Hansmann
 

An answer does depend upon the era. The pickle tank car owner table in David Leider’s book shows the peak of ownership is between 1930 and 1950 with about 150 cars in service across a number of companies. It also depends on where the production facilities are located.

 

I mentioned Lutz and Schramm in Pittsburgh and found they had other plants in Boston, Bronson, MI, and Sturgis, MI. The Michigan locations may be salting stations that supplied packing plants in Pittsburgh and Boston. L&S had at least eight cars running through the 1950s. They may have been common on the NYC lines connecting Michigan and Massachusetts.

 

That’s just one example. There might be a few other possibilities. The book has a Midwest focus, so there may be some northeastern operations that escaped David’s research. But it’s a great starting point.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2021 2:11 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car - further question

 

My original follow-on question to the photo that started this thread was intended to suggest some other users of the circular tub variety of pickle cars that would have been seen in the northeast, PA, NY, and neighboring states..  I was, perhaps, a little to elliptical in my rather vague question.  Any suggestions now that I’m being more specific?

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of BRIAN PAUL EHNI
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2021 2:50 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car - further question

 

Eric: do you have David J. Leider’s “Pickle and Vinegar Makers of the Midwest”? I don’t think it applies directly to your situation, but it has lots of info on plant layouts, photos of plants, cars, etc.

 

I’ll lend you my copy if you like.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 11:57 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car - further question

 

David,

 

I'll have three pickle and food production plants to serve on my future layout with HJ Heinz, Lutz & Schramm, and Cruikshank Brothers. Have you stumbled across details for cars that transported pickles from the field plants to Lutz & Schramm and Cruikshank Brothers in Pittsburgh, Penna.?

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

 

On 06/23/2021 9:08 PM David Leider <sooauthor@...> wrote:

 

 

Sguire-Dingee was a Chicago company, but had salting stations all over the midwest as w3ell as subsidaries in other parts of the US. Pickle cars of this type were used all over to pick up salted pickles for further processing
David Leider

 

 


John
 

The Heinz 57 SIG was quite active from 1984 through, maybe, 1991.  It was fairly large, too.  I was member #90 and by no means the last.  Al Westerfield was member #1.  There were four to six newsletters per year, some of them running to twenty pages, IIRC.  In the beginning, plenty of Heinz freight car photos and other information came to light.  But, eventually, that well dried up and interest fell off.  As there was little new information to be found there were fewer newsletters.  Eventually the group shut down.

John Bopp
Farmington Hills, MI
Modeling the Nineteen Aughts


Ray Breyer
 

>>It would seem odd, to me, for a Heinz or L&S pickle tank car to deliver product to Cruikshank. How did smaller operations >>receive their pickles?
>>Eric Hansmann
 
Hi Eric, 

Believe it or not, cucumbers were the most popular "vegetable" in the 19th Century, and were grown everywhere, especially in hothouses and greenhouses for winter consumption (Cleveland had something like 68 acres of cucumber greenhouses in the 1890s). Because of this, and because pickling companies were so local, most of the produce was trucked into the plants (and generally, trucked out since it was only needed for local deliveries).

Only a very few companies were large regional or national, with Heinz, Squier Dingee, and Libby being three of the largest. They'd need pickle cars, but 99% of all other pickle producers would not.

I can only find three direct references to "pickle tank cars" in the 1917 ORER. Were there more? Maybe: private companies at that time were VERY sketchy about their car information, so a listed "tank car" might have been a "pickle tank". We'll never know, unless we get lucky and spot something in an early photograph.

Oh: here's ALL of the pickle cars in the ACF lot list. There aren't many:
1904 - lot 3161 - Hyman Pickle Co (4 cars)
1904 - lot 3277 - Hyman (1 car)
1908 - lot 5308 - Keokuk Canning Co (1 car)
1909 - lot 5552 - Libbys (2 cars)
1910 - lot 6012 - Libbys (2 cars)
1919 - lot 8782 - Hyman (1 car)
1920 - lot 9064 - Hyman (1 car)
1921 - lot 9206 - Hirsch Brothers Pickle Co (2 cars)

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL

  


Eric Hansmann
 

Thanks for the extra info, Ray.

 

In reading through David Leider’s pickle and vinegar book, it’s easy to see that cucumbers were grown in many areas for pickle production. I had wondered if Cruikshank received via truck from local fields north of Pittsburgh. But I was focused on what the model freight car fleet would need to serve the customer.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ray Breyer via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2021 9:41 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car - further question

 

>>It would seem odd, to me, for a Heinz or L&S pickle tank car to deliver product to Cruikshank. How did smaller operations >>receive their pickles?

>>Eric Hansmann

 

Hi Eric, 

 

Believe it or not, cucumbers were the most popular "vegetable" in the 19th Century, and were grown everywhere, especially in hothouses and greenhouses for winter consumption (Cleveland had something like 68 acres of cucumber greenhouses in the 1890s). Because of this, and because pickling companies were so local, most of the produce was trucked into the plants (and generally, trucked out since it was only needed for local deliveries).

 

Only a very few companies were large regional or national, with Heinz, Squier Dingee, and Libby being three of the largest. They'd need pickle cars, but 99% of all other pickle producers would not.

 

I can only find three direct references to "pickle tank cars" in the 1917 ORER. Were there more? Maybe: private companies at that time were VERY sketchy about their car information, so a listed "tank car" might have been a "pickle tank". We'll never know, unless we get lucky and spot something in an early photograph.

 

Oh: here's ALL of the pickle cars in the ACF lot list. There aren't many:

1904 - lot 3161 - Hyman Pickle Co (4 cars)

1904 - lot 3277 - Hyman (1 car)

1908 - lot 5308 - Keokuk Canning Co (1 car)

1909 - lot 5552 - Libbys (2 cars)

1910 - lot 6012 - Libbys (2 cars)

1919 - lot 8782 - Hyman (1 car)

1920 - lot 9064 - Hyman (1 car)

1921 - lot 9206 - Hirsch Brothers Pickle Co (2 cars)

 

Ray Breyer

Elgin, IL

  


Richard Townsend
 

I went through the private car owners section of the January 1938 ORER looking for wooden tank cars (TW). These are the ones that specified the TW cars were pickle cars. There were many other TW cars that were not specified as pickle cars (though I know some were pickle cars) so I did not include them.

Fleischmann - 12 pickle cars
General American - possibly as many as 10 based on the numbering of the cars
H.J. Heinz - 28 pickle cars
E.J Balza - 2 pickle cars
Berger Foods - 1 pickle car
Bloch & Guggenheimer - 3 pickle cars
Budlong Pickle Co. - 8 pickle cars
California Conserving Co - 2 pickle cars
C.F. Clausen - 4 pickle cars
Cruikshank Bros - 2 pickle cars
Fleishman's Pickle - 1 pickle car (note different spelling from Fleischmann, above)
Glasser Crandell - 4 pickle cars
Libby, McNeill, Libby - 10 pickle cars
H.W Madison - 1 pickle car
Pepin Pickle Co - 2 pickle cars
Reid Murdoch - 6 pickle cars
Squire Dingee - 12 pickle cars

There were many TW cars called out as vinegar cars, including some that might have looked like the open sided pickle tub cars as they were specified as having four "tubs."

The California Dispatch Line had an unspecified number of TW cars in the number series CDLX 277-317 that were described as being "equipped with 6 wooden tanks." I associate CDLX cars with the wine industry and I wonder just what these cars looked like and how they were used. I immediately picture an extra-long tub car but can't imagine that would be right. Maybe the tanks were internal to a house car.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Breyer via groups.io <rtbsvrr69@...>
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Jun 26, 2021 7:41 am
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car - further question

>>It would seem odd, to me, for a Heinz or L&S pickle tank car to deliver product to Cruikshank. How did smaller operations >>receive their pickles?
>>Eric Hansmann
 
Hi Eric, 

Believe it or not, cucumbers were the most popular "vegetable" in the 19th Century, and were grown everywhere, especially in hothouses and greenhouses for winter consumption (Cleveland had something like 68 acres of cucumber greenhouses in the 1890s). Because of this, and because pickling companies were so local, most of the produce was trucked into the plants (and generally, trucked out since it was only needed for local deliveries).

Only a very few companies were large regional or national, with Heinz, Squier Dingee, and Libby being three of the largest. They'd need pickle cars, but 99% of all other pickle producers would not.

I can only find three direct references to "pickle tank cars" in the 1917 ORER. Were there more? Maybe: private companies at that time were VERY sketchy about their car information, so a listed "tank car" might have been a "pickle tank". We'll never know, unless we get lucky and spot something in an early photograph.

Oh: here's ALL of the pickle cars in the ACF lot list. There aren't many:
1904 - lot 3161 - Hyman Pickle Co (4 cars)
1904 - lot 3277 - Hyman (1 car)
1908 - lot 5308 - Keokuk Canning Co (1 car)
1909 - lot 5552 - Libbys (2 cars)
1910 - lot 6012 - Libbys (2 cars)
1919 - lot 8782 - Hyman (1 car)
1920 - lot 9064 - Hyman (1 car)
1921 - lot 9206 - Hirsch Brothers Pickle Co (2 cars)

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL
  


Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Richard and List Members,
 
Thanks Richard for the write-up.
 
Richard wrote: "I associate CDLX cars with the wine industry"
 
Right away I'm thinking in terms of red wine vinegar as the connection
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2021 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car - further question

I went through the private car owners section of the January 1938 ORER looking for wooden tank cars (TW). These are the ones that specified the TW cars were pickle cars. There were many other TW cars that were not specified as pickle cars (though I know some were pickle cars) so I did not include them.

Fleischmann - 12 pickle cars
General American - possibly as many as 10 based on the numbering of the cars
H.J. Heinz - 28 pickle cars
E.J Balza - 2 pickle cars
Berger Foods - 1 pickle car
Bloch & Guggenheimer - 3 pickle cars
Budlong Pickle Co. - 8 pickle cars
California Conserving Co - 2 pickle cars
C.F. Clausen - 4 pickle cars
Cruikshank Bros - 2 pickle cars
Fleishman's Pickle - 1 pickle car (note different spelling from Fleischmann, above)
Glasser Crandell - 4 pickle cars
Libby, McNeill, Libby - 10 pickle cars
H.W Madison - 1 pickle car
Pepin Pickle Co - 2 pickle cars
Reid Murdoch - 6 pickle cars
Squire Dingee - 12 pickle cars

There were many TW cars called out as vinegar cars, including some that might have looked like the open sided pickle tub cars as they were specified as having four "tubs."

The California Dispatch Line had an unspecified number of TW cars in the number series CDLX 277-317 that were described as being "equipped with 6 wooden tanks." I associate CDLX cars with the wine industry and I wonder just what these cars looked like and how they were used. I immediately picture an extra-long tub car but can't imagine that would be right. Maybe the tanks were internal to a house car.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Breyer via groups.io <rtbsvrr69@...>
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Jun 26, 2021 7:41 am
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Pickle Car - further question

>>It would seem odd, to me, for a Heinz or L&S pickle tank car to deliver product to Cruikshank. How did smaller operations >>receive their pickles?
>>Eric Hansmann
 
Hi Eric, 

Believe it or not, cucumbers were the most popular "vegetable" in the 19th Century, and were grown everywhere, especially in hothouses and greenhouses for winter consumption (Cleveland had something like 68 acres of cucumber greenhouses in the 1890s). Because of this, and because pickling companies were so local, most of the produce was trucked into the plants (and generally, trucked out since it was only needed for local deliveries).

Only a very few companies were large regional or national, with Heinz, Squier Dingee, and Libby being three of the largest. They'd need pickle cars, but 99% of all other pickle producers would not.

I can only find three direct references to "pickle tank cars" in the 1917 ORER. Were there more? Maybe: private companies at that time were VERY sketchy about their car information, so a listed "tank car" might have been a "pickle tank". We'll never know, unless we get lucky and spot something in an early photograph.

Oh: here's ALL of the pickle cars in the ACF lot list. There aren't many:
1904 - lot 3161 - Hyman Pickle Co (4 cars)
1904 - lot 3277 - Hyman (1 car)
1908 - lot 5308 - Keokuk Canning Co (1 car)
1909 - lot 5552 - Libbys (2 cars)
1910 - lot 6012 - Libbys (2 cars)
1919 - lot 8782 - Hyman (1 car)
1920 - lot 9064 - Hyman (1 car)
1921 - lot 9206 - Hirsch Brothers Pickle Co (2 cars)

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL