Hello everyone,

I'm currently working on the Red Caboose PFE 14760 (the script lettering/rounded painted sides) but I can't find photos of the ends for this car and sister cars. Would the ends and cut levers be the same as the R-30-9 rebuilds?

Thanks

On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 12:42 PM, Ray Carson wrote:

Hello everyone,

I'm currently working on the Red Caboose PFE 14760 (the script lettering/rounded painted sides) but I can't find photos of the ends for this car and sister cars. Would the ends and cut levers be the same as the R-30-9 rebuilds?

Thanks

 

Having long ago acquired a second hand Train Miniatures kit of car #14760, I too, have long been fascinated with this paint scheme to the point my PFE book practically opens itself to page 137.  Documentation in the kit states it is kit #84 of 500 specially decorated for the 1990 Pacific Coast Region NMRA convention in Oakland.  The car side data printed on the kit body show a built date for the car of 1-18, a rebuild date of 2-31, and a Roseville reweigh date of 6-38 (which correlates to the repaint date of car #14760 in the PFE book).

The Train Miniatures car is admittedly primitive by today’s modeling standards with the wrong under frame (and inaccurate ends because of it), inaccurately spaced T&G siding, cast on ladders and details, etc.  The T&G siding height also measures out to 8’7”.  

Although it only existed with this paint job for about five months, I’ve always wanted to do a more accurate and detailed version of the car with it’s curved corner paint scheme, script lettering, and metal herald plates that probably date back to it’s 1931 rebuild, to the point of making my own PFE script decals.  I also did the correct heralds (UP System w/Overland Route banner & SP Lines circle & bar) on thin glossy card stock to cut out, emboss mounting screw heads, and glue on the car sides to replicate the bolted on metal herald plates still on the car after being repainted in 1938.

After reading and rereading chapters six & seven (PFE 2nd Edition) so many times my book is starting to show it, I’ve come to the conclusion that because the chart (Table 6-2) on page 115 has drawing C-5000 listed for both the R-40-4 new cars and R-30-4 rebuilds and show the same cubic foot capacity of 1918 for the R-40-2, R-40-4, and R-30-4, the superstructure of the R-30-4 rebuilds probably mirror the look of the as delivered R-40-4.   It’s also because of this I’m guessing a Tichy R-40-2 kit body (including the height measurement) is probably pretty accurate for the R-30-4 (#13220-#15919 & #19920-#22519) rebuilds.

The instructions for the R-40-2 Tichy kit say it is “visually similar” to R-40-4 (steel substructure) cars as well as the (with the exception of the Bettendorf underframe)  R-30-9 and R-30-13 rebuild cars.  I would be careful here, I took a scale rule and measured the height of the T&G siding on the Tichy body.  It measured out right at 8 scale feet.  I also measured the height of the T&G siding of a Red Caboose R-30-12-9 kit.  It measures out at 8’3”.  The Red Caboose R-30-9 apparently is a “tall body” kit because the siding on it measures out at 8’7”.  Because the R-30-12-9 Red Caboose car already has the the Bettendorf underframe and is almost the same height dimension as the Tichy kit body, it is probably an easier starting point to do a R-30-4 rebuild.  All of these bodies depict a metal plate above the door drip rails and would need the T&G siding scribed in over that area above the doors to represent the #14760 per the photo on page 137.  I would surmise that a kit close enough to do a R-30-4 rebuild (including the #14760) with reasonable accuracy would have acceptable car end details.

Perhaps if we ask politely, we can get Tony Thompson and/or Dick Harley to comment on the #14760 and how they might model it.

WOW, great presentations!  Thanks Ted, the materials presented in your clinics add much invaluable information that begs to be printed out and tucked in the back of my PFE book.  

It was gratifying to get confirmation my suppositions about the Red Caboose car (R-30-12-9) were correct.  

Going back and restudying the picture of #14760 in the PFE book with a bright light and magnifying glass show it to be on Bettendorf T section trucks and unlike car #13415 pictured in your presentation, does appear (by 1938) to have it’s Carmer cut levers replaced.  It also appears to have that distinctive hatch lever shown in your presentation.

So I decided to add photos of the build. And from what I seen the Red Caboose model is mostly correct, but it does need additional details.

Some people PMed me about a Train Miniature version (never knew TM made one) but from what I've seen from the photo from the PFE Bible the TM is obviously a foobie, even for other R-30-4 cars.

Also Ted's files are extremely useful, I might print out some own for my PFE Bible. I kind of expected the cars to still have their Carmer cut levers based on the drawing from Dick Harley's SmugMug and I was right. Luckily I didn't add the wire cut lever or the kit Miner brakewheel/housing. I also found an old thread in here that I suspected is an R-30-4 on the left which has ladders, Carmer lever, and Ajax brakewheel/housing which matches the info in the drawing from Harley.

I know there are people that would want some photos for building R-30-9's with K brake, so here's the underbody.



I added 0.020" wire for the trainline which I drilled through the bolsters, crossbearers, and centersill. I removed the molded-on levers/rods and replaced them with 0.0125" wire for supports, Yarmouth Model Works #403 for the brake levers, Tichy turnbuckles cut in half to represent clevises with 0.010" wire in them. The KC brake is Red Caboose with a piece of styrene under it to lift it up. 0.008" wire is the retainer line and 0.016" wire is from the reservoir to the trainline. Used staples were bent and cut to be sillsteps. Tiny pieces of styrene are inserted above the staples to appear as part of the sillsteps. Sacrificed Athearn rivets are used along the frame and sillsteps. I didn't add rivets above the ones I added because that area was too thin. I then primed, painted, and dullcoated the frame. If I could I would've added brake stencils but don't have the skill to make decals. Trucks are Kadee HGC T-Sections, I need to replace the Code 100 wheels with Code 88 wheels.

Overall this improves the stock Red Caboose Bettendorf frame and brings it up to better detailing.



The ends and upper side corners I'm planning on adding the gussets(?) that appear on the R-30-4 prototypes. The ends from Ted's clinic have some kind of bar above the coupler which I'll also add. Carmers will be Yarmouth since that's my goto for them. I'll be custom building my own roofwalk with wood strips form Northeastern Scale Lumber since I'm not a fan of the stock Red Caboose. I noticed that Yarmouth recently added PFE roof hatch levers, I don't know how different in size they are to Plano's but I'll buy them in the near future.


Overall I hope to finish this eventually and this kit and make a thread for it. The underframe is allowing me to get an idea of how I'm going to build R-30-9s and other Bettendorf underframe cars in the future. Hope this info is useful to many of you.

Ray 

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Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Ray Carson wrote (in part):

If I could I would've added brake stencils but don't have the skill to make decals.

Beautiful build so far, Ray, excellent job with the work to date. On the brake stencils: use a repack stencil, it's almost correct and too small for anyone to read. Or you can use the Richard Hendrickson technique: use an N scale decal but place it upside down so it is effectively unreadable. This is on the basis of the principal that there OUGHT to be some lettering there, even if it isn’t legible.

Tony Thompson
tony@...

Thanks everyone for your compliments, I recently realized last night that this is a 4100 series car which is the higher body for R-30-9 prototypes. I debated it and I'm going to continue building it as is since this is a nice scheme. Even though I do model June 1939 this paint scheme won't fit. However it's a nice display model and a good "prototype" for me to build future Bettendorf frames that I mentioned earlier. I also have cars with reweigh dates before October 1938 so I can shove the car with those if I feel like running it.

It'll still receive R-30-4 details that I mentioned previously but I won't add the upper left/right "gussets" to save time (would be a different story if this was the short body though!)

Tony Thompson: On the brake stencils: use a repack stencil, it's almost correct and too small for anyone to read. Or you can use the Richard Hendrickson technique: use an N scale decal but place it upside down so it is effectively unreadable. This is on the basis of the principal that there OUGHT to be some lettering there, even if it isn’t legible.

I probably will try this with PFE N scale decals and see how they'll work in the future. I'll probably do the same with other cars with correct sized lettering/numbering.