Topics

Photos: Train Load Of Wine (Undated)


Bob Chaparro
 

Photos: Train Load Of Wine (Undated)

Photos from the California Revealed website:

https://californiarevealed.org/islandora/object/cavpp%3A112193

https://californiarevealed.org/islandora/object/cavpp%3A112194

Probably taken before or after Prohibition (January 1920 to December 1933), I would think.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Bob,

Yes, the dating of the photo is incorrect. According to Guy Dunscomb's WESTERN PACIFIC STEAM LOCOMOTIVES, PASSENGER TRAIN AND CARS, the enameled Feather River Route herald did not appear until 1929. Low mounted Pyle headlights date from 1931. There were subtle changes to the herald over the years which might better pin the date, but the herald is too small to spot these differences (rounded vs. square corners for example).

Given that Prohibition ended on 5 December 1933, and the banner implies this is not the first shipment of wine to the East Coast, sometime 1934 must be our bottom date. The presence of dedicated wine tank cars also suggests that some time has passed since repeal. 

I sure wish the image was large enough to read what is on the triple-compartment car behind the locomotive. I suppose the original photo is available for examination at the CSRM (subject to covid restrictions), but I'm on the wrong coast to drop in and ask to see it. (Sigh!) Access to my museums featuring information on my favorite railroads is one of the few things I miss about not living in California anymore. Now back to sipping mint julips on the veranda at my genteel estate.



Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 7:23 PM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photos: Train Load Of Wine (Undated)

Photos from the California Revealed website:

https://californiarevealed.org/islandora/object/cavpp%3A112193

https://californiarevealed.org/islandora/object/cavpp%3A112194

Probably taken before or after Prohibition (January 1920 to December 1933), I would think.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Bob and Friends,

I saved this photo to my desktop, and found that it is actually incredibly large, though you can't make it larger on the web page. 

The first tank car reads, "Bradford Winery, Lodi California; Choice California Wines. It is GATX 1363. It appears to have a reweigh date of "X 35" or "X 36", though even blown up the date is too fuzzy to read clearly. I am leaning toward 1936. The remaining two cars have no lettering showing because of the banner.

In the second photo, I was able to notice two more triples, one with Bradford lettering similar to the car behind #40's tender. The other appears to be quite stubby, maybe a 6K gallon car, with three domes the same size, probably over a riveted and un-jacketed tank. Neat little car. The two silver tanks Mel Perry asked about are GATX cars, possibly in the 5XXX-series. There are some vague differences in the underframes and the domes are of different sizes. They have no special lettering like the two Bradford cars.

The WP caboose appears to be 723, one of 8 cars built by WP in 1926 at their Jeffrey Shops in Sacramento to a Haskell & Barker design also used by the D&RGW and MP. (These were all Gould-owned railroads at one time and purchased similar equipment, but unlike the Harriman roads there was no such thing as a "Gould Standard", so please don't call them that). It has truss rods, but also a more modern steel underframe or center sill than the original all-wood H&B cars. According to P. Allen Copland's WP caboose list, this car was retired in 1948.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 7:23 PM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photos: Train Load Of Wine (Undated)

Photos from the California Revealed website:

https://californiarevealed.org/islandora/object/cavpp%3A112193

https://californiarevealed.org/islandora/object/cavpp%3A112194

Probably taken before or after Prohibition (January 1920 to December 1933), I would think.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Bill J.
 

I must wonder how that wine tasted after bouncing around in a hot tank car for two weeks.

Bill Jolitz


Pierre Oliver
 

With the right cheese... :-)

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 8/18/20 11:17 a.m., Bill J. via groups.io wrote:

I must wonder how that wine tasted after bouncing around in a hot tank car for two weeks.

Bill Jolitz


Bruce Smith
 

It's what gives it that magical essence, that terroir...

A number of years ago we discussed what was actually shipped. Most likely it was fermented wine, because unfermented grape juice runs the risk of fermenting in transit. It might have even been concentrated to some degree. After all, why pay to ship water. 

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bill J. via groups.io <jolitzwr@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 10:17 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: Train Load Of Wine (Undated)
 
I must wonder how that wine tasted after bouncing around in a hot tank car for two weeks.

Bill Jolitz


Tony Thompson
 

Bill Jolitz wrote:

I must wonder how that wine tasted after bouncing around in a hot tank car for two weeks.

      Three points. First, most wine shipping is in winter and spring. Second, this isn't table wine, it's blending wine in most cases. And third, the majority of wine shipments east were fortified wine, as Bruce mentioned, and that is pretty stable against spoilage.

Tony Thompson




Dave Parker
 

On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 10:42 AM, Tony Thompson wrote:
And third, the majority of wine shipments east were fortified wine, as Bruce mentioned, and that is pretty stable against spoilage.
Indeed, as the second and third cars (in the first image) have "Port" chalked on the side of the dome.  But apparently it was only "OK".  ;-)

More seriously, what could be done with a tank car to prevent pilferage en route?  Could the drain and/or hatch be locked?  Assuming we are in the Depression here, there were plenty of down-on-their-luck types riding the rails and hanging around the yards.
 
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Tony Thompson
 

Dave Parker wrote:

More seriously, what could be done with a tank car to prevent pilferage en route?  Could the drain and/or hatch be locked?  Assuming we are in the Depression here, there were plenty of down-on-their-luck types riding the rails and hanging around the yards.

   Both blending wine and raw brandy are pretty much undrinkable. Your mouth would seriously clench up if you're not a vintner. These products are far from consumer-ready, and need significant blending and aging to reach drinkability.

Tony Thompson




Rod Miller
 

Jim Lancaster researched and documented the wine business of Chateau Martin. His website:

http://coastdaylight.com/chatmart/cmwx_roster_1.html

contains information about the movement of wine products by rail.