Topics

Private owner tank cars

Jack Priller <Gndlfstram@...>
 

I just bought a pair of Tichy 10,000 gallon tank car kits [USRA-ARA
class III] Mentioned of the instruction sheet is fact that while the
earlier cars were built with Andrews trucks, later ones had
Bettendorfs, which are supplied with the kit. As I have a few pairs
on the Andrews trucks in supply box, I would like to know which ones
would most likely be on a privately owned tank car around 1930. Or
were there some of each in that time frame? TIA

Jack Priller
"What we really are matters more than what other's
think of us." - Jawaharlal Nehru, Indian statesman (1889-1964).

Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

I just bought a pair of Tichy 10,000 gallon tank car kits [USRA-ARA
class III] Mentioned of the instruction sheet is fact that while the
earlier cars were built with Andrews trucks, later ones had
Bettendorfs, which are supplied with the kit. As I have a few pairs
on the Andrews trucks in supply box, I would like to know which ones
would most likely be on a privately owned tank car around 1930. Or
were there some of each in that time frame? TIA
Old news: The instruction sheet is wrong. The tooling for the model was
made from a USRA proposal. No such cars were actually built. Perhaps
Richard will share some suggestions on how to best make use of the
collection of parts in this kit (I have some too).

Dave Nelson

Jack Priller <Gndlfstram@...>
 

--- In STMFC@y..., "Dave & Libby Nelson" <muskoka@i...> wrote:


Old news: The instruction sheet is wrong. The tooling for the
model was
made from a USRA proposal. No such cars were actually built.
Perhaps
Richard will share some suggestions on how to best make use of the
collection of parts in this kit (I have some too).

Dave Nelson
Well, that news 'made my day' so to speak. I am always open to
suggestions. Will probably build one of them anyway, and just not let
this bunch [or the Prototype Modelers clan] into my layout
room. :>)) As these never really existed, won't ask about
apporpriate paint schemes. [Note: I'm also a member of the free-lance
modelers club.]

Jack Priller
"What we really are matters more than what other's
think of us." - Jawaharlal Nehru, Indian statesman (1889-1964).

Richard Hendrickson
 

Jack Priller wrote:

I just bought a pair of Tichy 10,000 gallon tank car kits [USRA-ARA
class III] Mentioned of the instruction sheet is fact that while the
earlier cars were built with Andrews trucks, later ones had
Bettendorfs, which are supplied with the kit. As I have a few pairs
on the Andrews trucks in supply box, I would like to know which ones
would most likely be on a privately owned tank car around 1930. Or
were there some of each in that time frame? TIA
To which Dave Nelson responded:

Old news: The instruction sheet is wrong. The tooling for the model was
made from a USRA proposal. No such cars were actually built. Perhaps
Richard will share some suggestions on how to best make use of the
collection of parts in this kit (I have some too).
Unfortunately, Dave is right. The Tichy (ex-Gould) kit is one of the
finest examples of injection-molded styrene tooling ever produced, but the
prototype for it never existed. Gould was a superb toolmaker but a lousy
historian (and was egged on in this project by Bob Hundman, who also didn't
realize that the cars had never been built - and to this day has never
admitted he was wrong).

With regard to trucks, many of the tank cars built from ca. 1915 to the
late 1920s were equipped with arch bar trucks when new, and (with few
exceptions) kept them until the late 1930s-early 1940s, the AAR's ruling
against them in interchange service finally taking effect in 7/41. Cars
built with Andrews trucks (as some were) would still have had them in 1930,
and some cars built in the 1920s got one version or another of the ARA cast
steel trucks with integral journal boxes (incorrectly called by Tichy and
others "Bettendorf" trucks). But to know which trucks were on which cars,
you really have to work from photos. Tichy's "Bettendorf" trucks actually
represent AAR self-aligning spring plankless trucks, which weren't
developed until the mid-1930s and are therefore anachronisms if you're
modeling 1930. The 1920s ARA truck with spring plank is well modeled in HO
by Accurail and an odd late 1920s Gould version is less well modeled by
Model Die Casting.

The USRA 10,000 gal. tank design, which the Tichy kit well models, was
finally put into production (with some minor modifications) in 1942-'44
when several hundred cars were built by AC&F to the "war emergency" USG-A
specification, with more-restrictive-than-normal weight and pressure
limits. These cars were operated by the U. S. Army and Shippers Car Line.
But the underframes were of Type 27 design and thus different from the
underframe modeled by the Tichy kit. These cars can be kitbashed, but
that's not much help if you're modeling 1930.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Jack Priller <Gndlfstram@...>
 

--- In STMFC@y..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@o...> wrote:

Unfortunately, Dave is right. The Tichy (ex-Gould) kit is one of
the
finest examples of injection-molded styrene tooling ever produced,
but the
prototype for it never existed. Gould was a superb toolmaker but a
lousy
historian (and was egged on in this project by Bob Hundman, who
also didn't
realize that the cars had never been built - and to this day has
never
admitted he was wrong).>>
Have known a few 'experts' of that type myself.


With regard to trucks, many of the tank cars built from ca. 1915 to
the
late 1920s were equipped with arch bar trucks when new, and (with
few
exceptions) kept them until the late 1930s-early 1940s, the AAR's
ruling
against them in interchange service finally taking effect in 7/41.
Cars
built with Andrews trucks (as some were) would still have had them
in 1930,
and some cars built in the 1920s got one version or another of the
ARA cast
steel trucks with integral journal boxes (incorrectly called by
Tichy and
others "Bettendorf" trucks). But to know which trucks were on
which cars,
you really have to work from photos. Tichy's "Bettendorf" trucks
actually
represent AAR self-aligning spring plankless trucks, which weren't
developed until the mid-1930s and are therefore anachronisms if
you're
modeling 1930. The 1920s ARA truck with spring plank is well
modeled in HO
by Accurail and an odd late 1920s Gould version is less well
modeled by
Model Die Casting.

The USRA 10,000 gal. tank design, which the Tichy kit well models,
was
finally put into production (with some minor modifications) in 1942-
'44
when several hundred cars were built by AC&F to the "war emergency"
USG-A
specification, with more-restrictive-than-normal weight and pressure
limits. These cars were operated by the U. S. Army and Shippers
Car Line.
But the underframes were of Type 27 design and thus different from
the
underframe modeled by the Tichy kit. These cars can be kitbashed,
but
that's not much help if you're modeling 1930.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520
So basically my choices are
a. Find some sucker to take these off my hands [Hello, Ebay?]
b. Build them anyway and put sign on layout room
door: "Nitpickers will be gagged."
c. Find clear pics for my era and modify to get a reasonable
model.
d. Put these away and start on the 125-ton crane kit. [also
Tichy]

Will probably do 'd' but the last part of 'b' has some merit! :>))

Jack Priller
"What we really are matters more than what other's
think of us." - Jawaharlal Nehru, Indian statesman (1889-1964).

Jack Priller <Gndlfstram@...>
 

--- In STMFC@y..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@o...> wrote:

Unfortunately, Dave is right. The Tichy (ex-Gould) kit is one of
the
finest examples of injection-molded styrene tooling ever produced,
but the
prototype for it never existed. Gould was a superb toolmaker but a
lousy
historian (and was egged on in this project by Bob Hundman, who
also didn't
realize that the cars had never been built - and to this day has
never
admitted he was wrong).>>
Have known a few 'experts' of that type myself.


With regard to trucks, many of the tank cars built from ca. 1915 to
the
late 1920s were equipped with arch bar trucks when new, and (with
few
exceptions) kept them until the late 1930s-early 1940s, the AAR's
ruling
against them in interchange service finally taking effect in 7/41.
Cars
built with Andrews trucks (as some were) would still have had them
in 1930,
and some cars built in the 1920s got one version or another of the
ARA cast
steel trucks with integral journal boxes (incorrectly called by
Tichy and
others "Bettendorf" trucks). But to know which trucks were on
which cars,
you really have to work from photos. Tichy's "Bettendorf" trucks
actually
represent AAR self-aligning spring plankless trucks, which weren't
developed until the mid-1930s and are therefore anachronisms if
you're
modeling 1930. The 1920s ARA truck with spring plank is well
modeled in HO
by Accurail and an odd late 1920s Gould version is less well
modeled by
Model Die Casting.

The USRA 10,000 gal. tank design, which the Tichy kit well models,
was
finally put into production (with some minor modifications) in 1942-
'44
when several hundred cars were built by AC&F to the "war emergency"
USG-A
specification, with more-restrictive-than-normal weight and pressure
limits. These cars were operated by the U. S. Army and Shippers
Car Line.
But the underframes were of Type 27 design and thus different from
the
underframe modeled by the Tichy kit. These cars can be kitbashed,
but
that's not much help if you're modeling 1930.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520
So basically my choices are
a. Find some sucker to take these off my hands [Hello, Ebay?]
b. Build them anyway and put sign on layout room
door: "Nitpickers will be gagged."
c. Find clear pics for my era and modify to get a reasonable
model.
d. Put these away and start on the 125-ton crane kit. [also
Tichy]

Will probably do 'd' but the last part of 'b' has some merit! :>))

Jack Priller
"What we really are matters more than what other's
think of us." - Jawaharlal Nehru, Indian statesman (1889-1964).

Gail & Tom Madden <tgmadden@...>
 

Jack Priller wrote, regarding his supply of Tichy tank car kits:
So basically my choices are
a. Find some sucker to take these off my hands [Hello, Ebay?]
b. Build them anyway and put sign on layout room
door: "Nitpickers will be gagged."
c. Find clear pics for my era and modify to get a reasonable
model.
d. Put these away and start on the 125-ton crane kit. [also
Tichy]

Will probably do 'd' but the last part of 'b' has some merit! :>))

It builds into a nice-looking car, and is a most satisfying kit to assemble.
I did four, gave one of those to a friend who's a Texaco memorabilia
collector (and not a model railroader) and sold the rest in the early days
of the Freight Car List, before eBay.

It's your railroad, and your hobby. Don't drive yourself crazy obsessing
over this. Besides, there's some merit in having the odd model whose sole
purpose is to drive Byron up the wall.

Tom M.

Richard Hendrickson
 

Tom Madden, generous as always, wrote regarding Jack Priller's Tichy tank
car kits:

It builds into a nice-looking car, and is a most satisfying kit to assemble.
I did four, gave one of those to a friend who's a Texaco memorabilia
collector (and not a model railroader) and sold the rest in the early days
of the Freight Car List, before eBay.

It's your railroad, and your hobby. Don't drive yourself crazy obsessing
over this. Besides, there's some merit in having the odd model whose sole
purpose is to drive Byron up the wall.
Yes, but just remember, the prototype police are out their with their
badges and ticket books, and they know where you live.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

-----Original Message-----
b. Build them anyway and put sign on layout room
door: "Nitpickers will be gagged."
Will probably do 'd' but the last part of 'b' has some merit! :>))

You're talking about >90% of the subscribers to this list.

Dave Nelson

Bruce F Smith <smithbf@...>
 

On Sat, 27 Jan 2001, Richard Hendrickson wrote:
The USRA 10,000 gal. tank design, which the Tichy kit well models, was
finally put into production (with some minor modifications) in 1942-'44
when several hundred cars were built by AC&F to the "war emergency" USG-A
specification, with more-restrictive-than-normal weight and pressure
limits. These cars were operated by the U. S. Army and Shippers Car Line.
But the underframes were of Type 27 design and thus different from the
underframe modeled by the Tichy kit. These cars can be kitbashed, but
Richard, as the proud owner of at least 4 Tichy kits, with perhaps 2 more
in the mail on their way, and since I model 1944, can you point me in the
right direction for this "kitbash" I am assuming that perhaps the
Intermountain type 27 underframe would be a starting point? BTW, Tichy
offers both a large and small dome version - are both of these correct for
the SHPX and U.S. Army, and also, while I am it, where does on find good
steam era tank car decals (HO sacle)? Modeling the PRR in 1944, I plan to
have a number of "pipeline" on rails, expedited tank car trains modeled.

Happy Rails
Bruce

Richard Hendrickson
 

Bruce Smith wrote:

Richard, as the proud owner of at least 4 Tichy kits, with perhaps 2 more
in the mail on their way, and since I model 1944, can you point me in the
right direction for this "kitbash" I am assuming that perhaps the
Intermountain type 27 underframe would be a starting point?
Right, though I haven't actually done this kitbash so I don't know what
sort of mismatch problems, if any, might be encountered.

....BTW, Tichy
offers both a large and small dome version - are both of these correct for
the SHPX and U.S. Army?
No - you want the small dome version.

also, while I am it, where does one find good
steam era tank car decals (HO scale)? Modeling the PRR in 1944, I plan to
have a number of "pipeline" on rails, expedited tank car trains modeled.
I don't have any good answers for this one, Bruce. Some of the Champ tank
car decals are pretty good, and though some have been discontinued, Rich
Meyer is now offering to make small re-runs from the old art work using an
ALPS printer (but the ALPS re-runs are not cheap). I've agreed to work up
the data for a Microscale set covering the most common late steam era tank
car lessors - GATX, UTLX, SHPX, and NATX - but haven't found the time to do
it as yet. I'll probably get to this pretty soon, though, as I have some
tank car projects of my own which I hope to get time for later this year.
Too many projects, too little time.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce F Smith [mailto:smithbf@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 7:27 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Private owner tank cars


I am assuming that perhaps the
Intermountain type 27 underframe would be a starting point?
Is the the right circumstance to ask Byron -- or is that some other tank car
frame?
8-)

Dave Nelson

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote

I've agreed to work up the data for a Microscale set covering the most
common late steam era tank car lessors - GATX, UTLX, SHPX, and NATX ..
If I can do anything to help you find more time - mow your lawn, grocery
shopping, whatever - just let me know! I REALLY need those decals! ;o)


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Marlborough, Massachusetts

Richard Hendrickson
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote

I've agreed to work up the data for a Microscale set covering the most
common late steam era tank car lessors - GATX, UTLX, SHPX, and NATX ..
If I can do anything to help you find more time - mow your lawn, grocery
shopping, whatever - just let me know! I REALLY need those decals! ;o)
Uh, Tim, do you have any experience as a tax accountant?

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

ibs4421@...
 

Hey Richard,
I made a "D" in tax accounting back in 1981, but I aced
my cost accounting class. Guess that's why I went and got a history degree.
:)

Warren Dickinson

Uh, Tim, do you have any experience as a tax accountant?

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520




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Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. <smithbf@...>
 

Hi Richard,

I've agreed to work up
the data for a Microscale set covering the most common late steam era tank
car lessors - GATX, UTLX, SHPX, and NATX - but haven't found the time to do
it as yet. I'll probably get to this pretty soon, though, as I have some
tank car projects of my own which I hope to get time for later this year.
Too many projects, too little time.
Don't I know it! BTW, I find MacinTax to be very helpful this time of year
(as I'm sure is TurboTax, the PC version)...it interfaces directly with
Quicken, and even though my taxes are not seriously complicated, it turns a
10 hour task into around a 2 to 3 hour task...and I can use the rest of my
time working on that kitbash!

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
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John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

Richard - Can I quote this on our Tichy section
(http://www.union.rpi.edu/railroad/images/rolling-stock/Kits/Tichy-kits.html
) ? - John

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Hendrickson" <rhendrickson@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2001 3:56 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Private owner tank cars


Jack Priller wrote:

I just bought a pair of Tichy 10,000 gallon tank car kits [USRA-ARA
class III] Mentioned of the instruction sheet is fact that while the
earlier cars were built with Andrews trucks, later ones had
Bettendorfs, which are supplied with the kit. As I have a few pairs
on the Andrews trucks in supply box, I would like to know which ones
would most likely be on a privately owned tank car around 1930. Or
were there some of each in that time frame? TIA
To which Dave Nelson responded:

Old news: The instruction sheet is wrong. The tooling for the model was
made from a USRA proposal. No such cars were actually built. Perhaps
Richard will share some suggestions on how to best make use of the
collection of parts in this kit (I have some too).
Unfortunately, Dave is right. The Tichy (ex-Gould) kit is one of the
finest examples of injection-molded styrene tooling ever produced, but the
prototype for it never existed. Gould was a superb toolmaker but a lousy
historian (and was egged on in this project by Bob Hundman, who also
didn't
realize that the cars had never been built - and to this day has never
admitted he was wrong).

With regard to trucks, many of the tank cars built from ca. 1915 to the
late 1920s were equipped with arch bar trucks when new, and (with few
exceptions) kept them until the late 1930s-early 1940s, the AAR's ruling
against them in interchange service finally taking effect in 7/41. Cars
built with Andrews trucks (as some were) would still have had them in
1930,
and some cars built in the 1920s got one version or another of the ARA
cast
steel trucks with integral journal boxes (incorrectly called by Tichy and
others "Bettendorf" trucks). But to know which trucks were on which cars,
you really have to work from photos. Tichy's "Bettendorf" trucks actually
represent AAR self-aligning spring plankless trucks, which weren't
developed until the mid-1930s and are therefore anachronisms if you're
modeling 1930. The 1920s ARA truck with spring plank is well modeled in
HO
by Accurail and an odd late 1920s Gould version is less well modeled by
Model Die Casting.

The USRA 10,000 gal. tank design, which the Tichy kit well models, was
finally put into production (with some minor modifications) in 1942-'44
when several hundred cars were built by AC&F to the "war emergency" USG-A
specification, with more-restrictive-than-normal weight and pressure
limits. These cars were operated by the U. S. Army and Shippers Car Line.
But the underframes were of Type 27 design and thus different from the
underframe modeled by the Tichy kit. These cars can be kitbashed, but
that's not much help if you're modeling 1930.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520




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STMFC-unsubscribe@...


thompson@...
 

Don't I know it! BTW, I find MacinTax to be very helpful this time of year
(as I'm sure is TurboTax, the PC version)...it interfaces directly with
Quicken, and even though my taxes are not seriously complicated, it turns a
10 hour task into around a 2 to 3 hour task...and I can use the rest of my
time working on that kitbash!
Though it's off-topic, I feel that accuracy requires observing that
MacInTax is no more. Intuit now calls both its PC and Mac products
TurboTax.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history

Richard Hendrickson
 

Richard - Can I quote this on our Tichy section...?
Sure, John. In fact, to save us both a bit of time, you have blanket
permission to quote anything I post to the freight car or STMFC lists
(unless I'm flaming someone or vice-versa!).

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Jack Priller <Gndlfstram@...>
 

--- In STMFC@y..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@o...> wrote:

Yes, but just remember, the prototype police are out their with
their
badges and ticket books, and they know where you live.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520
Ah, did I happen to mention that I am also a member of the
midearthrails group? I keep our mascot, Smaug II, in my back yard.

Jack Priller
Honorable Association of Good Guys and Irreverent Souls
"To comfort the afflicted, and to afflict the comfortable."