PRR X25 was PRR "wrong-way" door car - Photo: New England Alcohol Company Tank Car NEACX 32


Bruce Smith
 

Eric,

Thanks for pointing out that this is an X25. The terminology "wrong way" door is outmoded and inaccurate. There is nothing "wrong" about a left opening door and in fact, it was quite common with the X23 also having a left opening door, along with many other cars of many other roads, so the term is not only unnecessarily pejorative, it is lacking in sufficient detail to identify the car class.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2022 5:47 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR "wrong-way" door car - Photo: New England Alcohol Company Tank Car NEACX 32
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
That's a great two-fer! A Pennsy X25 box car and a classic Autocar truck!

The X25 cars were the first steel-sheathed box cars for the Pennsy. Almost 10,000 were built between 1915 and 1919.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On 07/01/2022 4:25 PM Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:


Thanks for the pointer.  I fund this (new to me) car:https://mohistory.org/collections/item/P0403-12111-03-4a?fullscreen=1 


Robert kirkham
 

lol, that gave me chuckle.  I really thought the quote marks would indicate it wasn’t so much my choice of words as a descriptive label i’ve seen used somewhere else.  First time i’ve been accused of being unnecessarily pejorative to a freight car.  (smiling here, btw - not at all upset to be corrected).  Point taken, i will reform my language choices going forward.   But, tell me for real, were you really surprised to find it was a car with a left opening door.   And was there more than one class of PRR cars that had left opening doors?   (I really don’t know the answer to that, so am curious).

I am grateful that Eric was able to identify the class.  These haven’t been on my radar.  I really like the fishbelly centre sill.   It would make an interesting model; possibly workable as a kitbash?

Rob 

On Jul 1, 2022, at 7:43 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Eric,

Thanks for pointing out that this is an X25. The terminology "wrong way" door is outmoded and inaccurate. There is nothing "wrong" about a left opening door and in fact, it was quite common with the X23 also having a left opening door, along with many other cars of many other roads, so the term is not only unnecessarily pejorative, it is lacking in sufficient detail to identify the car class.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2022 5:47 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR "wrong-way" door car - Photo: New England Alcohol Company Tank Car NEACX 32
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
That's a great two-fer! A Pennsy X25 box car and a classic Autocar truck!

The X25 cars were the first steel-sheathed box cars for the Pennsy. Almost 10,000 were built between 1915 and 1919.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On 07/01/2022 4:25 PM Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:


Thanks for the pointer.  I fund this (new to me) car:https://mohistory.org/collections/item/P0403-12111-03-4a?fullscreen=1 



Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi Rob,
 
Westerfield offers kits for the X25.
 
 
Pax,
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 

From: Robert kirkham
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 12:53 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR X25 was PRR "wrong-way" door car - Photo: New England Alcohol Company Tank Car NEACX 32
 
lol, that gave me chuckle.  I really thought the quote marks would indicate it wasn’t so much my choice of words as a descriptive label i’ve seen used somewhere else.  First time i’ve been accused of being unnecessarily pejorative to a freight car.  (smiling here, btw - not at all upset to be corrected).  Point taken, i will reform my language choices going forward.   But, tell me for real, were you really surprised to find it was a car with a left opening door.   And was there more than one class of PRR cars that had left opening doors?   (I really don’t know the answer to that, so am curious).
 
I am grateful that Eric was able to identify the class.  These haven’t been on my radar.  I really like the fishbelly centre sill.   It would make an interesting model; possibly workable as a kitbash?
 
Rob
 
On Jul 1, 2022, at 7:43 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
 
Eric,
 
Thanks for pointing out that this is an X25. The terminology "wrong way" door is outmoded and inaccurate. There is nothing "wrong" about a left opening door and in fact, it was quite common with the X23 also having a left opening door, along with many other cars of many other roads, so the term is not only unnecessarily pejorative, it is lacking in sufficient detail to identify the car class.
 
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2022 5:47 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR "wrong-way" door car - Photo: New England Alcohol Company Tank Car NEACX 32
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
That's a great two-fer! A Pennsy X25 box car and a classic Autocar truck!
 
The X25 cars were the first steel-sheathed box cars for the Pennsy. Almost 10,000 were built between 1915 and 1919.
 
 
Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN
 
On 07/01/2022 4:25 PM Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:
 
 
Thanks for the pointer.  I fund this (new to me) car:https://mohistory.org/collections/item/P0403-12111-03-4a?fullscreen=1 
 
 


Benjamin Hom
 

Rob Kirkham wrote:
"But, tell me for real, were you really surprised to find it was a car with a left opening door.   And was there more than one class of PRR cars that had left opening doors?   (I really don’t know the answer to that, so am curious)."

You have to expand your horizons...in the early part of the century, left-opening doors were quite common.  The largest group of boxcars built for a US railroad, the PRR Class XL (> 32,000 built), had left-opening doors.  These were retired en masse from revenue during the 1930s as the PRR Class X29 cars were built (> 29,000 cars), with the last ones running in revenue service on the Pennsy (LIRR) in the early 1940s.  The Class XL boxcars are also available from Westerfield, in many variations over its lifetime, including cars converted to work service.

With over 32,000 cars built, maybe it's your railroad that has its doors opening the wrong way.


Ben Hom


Ray Breyer
 

Before WWII, almost all Pennsy cars had left opening doors. Similarly, most Erie and B&O cars also had left opening doors, as did many smaller eastern fleets (and for a time, about half of the SP's house cars had left sliders too). With three of the top ten house car fleets having left opening doors, they were anything but "wrong".

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL




On Jul 1, 2022, at 7:43 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Eric,

Thanks for pointing out that this is an X25. The terminology "wrong way" door is outmoded and inaccurate. There is nothing "wrong" about a left opening door and in fact, it was quite common with the X23 also having a left opening door, along with many other cars of many other roads, so the term is not only unnecessarily pejorative, it is lacking in sufficient detail to identify the car class.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Bruce Smith
 

Rob,

As noted by others, nope, not at all surprised, but then I am very familiar with PRR's boxcar classes and know that the left opening doorway on a steel boxcar (along with the deep fishbelly centersill) are all spotting features of the X25 class. That centersill was inherited from the X23 class (also left opening door). The X25 represents the pioneering class of all-steel boxcars on the PRR. A smaller subclass,. X25A, was built with double doors and an end door for automobile loading service. Unlike the X24 and X28 classes, the X25A kept the same roof height as its general service counterpart (X23, X29 in the other cases). You will note that the main door being left opening is subtly carried over in the X25A (and X24) as these cars have the double door offset to the right, not the left, as you may be used to in later double door automobile cars such as the X28 and X31.

As noted already, Westerfield offers(ed) the X25 and X25A as flat resin kits so no need to kitbash.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2022 11:53 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR X25 was PRR "wrong-way" door car - Photo: New England Alcohol Company Tank Car NEACX 32
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
lol, that gave me chuckle.  I really thought the quote marks would indicate it wasn’t so much my choice of words as a descriptive label i’ve seen used somewhere else.  First time i’ve been accused of being unnecessarily pejorative to a freight car.  (smiling here, btw - not at all upset to be corrected).  Point taken, i will reform my language choices going forward.   But, tell me for real, were you really surprised to find it was a car with a left opening door.   And was there more than one class of PRR cars that had left opening doors?   (I really don’t know the answer to that, so am curious).

I am grateful that Eric was able to identify the class.  These haven’t been on my radar.  I really like the fishbelly centre sill.   It would make an interesting model; possibly workable as a kitbash?

Rob 

On Jul 1, 2022, at 7:43 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Eric,

Thanks for pointing out that this is an X25. The terminology "wrong way" door is outmoded and inaccurate. There is nothing "wrong" about a left opening door and in fact, it was quite common with the X23 also having a left opening door, along with many other cars of many other roads, so the term is not only unnecessarily pejorative, it is lacking in sufficient detail to identify the car class.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2022 5:47 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR "wrong-way" door car - Photo: New England Alcohol Company Tank Car NEACX 32
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
That's a great two-fer! A Pennsy X25 box car and a classic Autocar truck!

The X25 cars were the first steel-sheathed box cars for the Pennsy. Almost 10,000 were built between 1915 and 1919.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On 07/01/2022 4:25 PM Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:


Thanks for the pointer.  I fund this (new to me) car:https://mohistory.org/collections/item/P0403-12111-03-4a?fullscreen=1 



Dennis Storzek <dennis@...>
 

This makes me wonder, what was the reasoning, leftward opening vs. rightward? Admittedly, leftward opening doors predated steel cars; plenty of wood cars were built with doors that opened to the left. In fact, if one goes back to the dawn of railroad equipment, I would suspect an ever split, as one finds with building doors. But on buildings the details of location dictate the choice, not so with railroad cars. So, why the eventual dominance of doors opening to the right, to the eventual exclusion of single doors opening to the left?

Dennis Storzek


Dave Parker
 

On Sat, Jul 2, 2022 at 08:33 AM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
So, why the eventual dominance of doors opening to the right, to the eventual exclusion of single doors opening to the left?
This is only a guess, but maybe the MCB/ARA lettering standards might have influenced this?  The placement of the reporting marks, car number, and weight data to the left of center was "preferred" in the 1908 Recommended Practice.  The marking practices became a Standard in 1913 and, by 1918, it seems that the left-side placement was MOL mandated.  This would seem to roughly coincide with the disappearance of left-opening doors in new construction (I think).

A left-opening door could wholly or partially obscure the more "important" stencils; the right-side markings generally consisted of dimensional data and/or equipment lists.  So, on cars like the X23, the placement of the markings was flipped relative to the Standard.

I have no idea if this consideration would have been enough to even nudge the industry away from left-opening doors. 

Another factor that comes to mind is the standardization of the door hardware manufactured by companies such as Camel.  Maybe?
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Robert kirkham
 

Excellent info.  I had no idea.  When i think about it, i think i pulled the phrase out of a memory of a F&C Lehigh Valley kit.  

As for my road, which for the fun of it i’ll say is the CPR, hey, we didn’t even use car classes etc to identify our cars.  No X28, X29 or GLa etc.  Just number series and (in company records) lot numbers for various build orders.  At this point i have not found a left opening door but, until yesterday, i wasn’t looking.

Rob      

On Jul 2, 2022, at 4:49 AM, Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:

Rob Kirkham wrote:
"But, tell me for real, were you really surprised to find it was a car with a left opening door.   And was there more than one class of PRR cars that had left opening doors?   (I really don’t know the answer to that, so am curious)."

You have to expand your horizons...in the early part of the century, left-opening doors were quite common.  The largest group of boxcars built for a US railroad, the PRR Class XL (> 32,000 built), had left-opening doors.  These were retired en masse from revenue during the 1930s as the PRR Class X29 cars were built (> 29,000 cars), with the last ones running in revenue service on the Pennsy (LIRR) in the early 1940s.  The Class XL boxcars are also available from Westerfield, in many variations over its lifetime, including cars converted to work service.

With over 32,000 cars built, maybe it's your railroad that has its doors opening the wrong way.


Ben Hom


Robert kirkham
 

Thanks for filling that in Ralph.  I’ll have to add it to my list.

Rob

On Jul 1, 2022, at 10:15 PM, Ralph W. Brown <rbrown51@...> wrote:

Hi Rob,
Westerfield offers kits for the X25.
Pax,
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
From: Robert kirkham
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 12:53 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR X25 was PRR "wrong-way" door car - Photo: New England Alcohol Company Tank Car NEACX 32
lol, that gave me chuckle.  I really thought the quote marks would indicate it wasn’t so much my choice of words as a descriptive label i’ve seen used somewhere else.  First time i’ve been accused of being unnecessarily pejorative to a freight car.  (smiling here, btw - not at all upset to be corrected).  Point taken, i will reform my language choices going forward.  But, tell me for real, were you really surprised to find it was a car with a left opening door.  And was there more than one class of PRR cars that had left opening doors?  (I really don’t know the answer to that, so am curious). 
I am grateful that Eric was able to identify the class.  These haven’t been on my radar.  I really like the fishbelly centre sill.  It would make an interesting model; possibly workable as a kitbash? 
Rob 
On Jul 1, 2022, at 7:43 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Eric,
Thanks for pointing out that this is an X25. The terminology "wrong way" door is outmoded and inaccurate. There is nothing "wrong" about a left opening door and in fact, it was quite common with the X23 also having a left opening door, along with many other cars of many other roads, so the term is not only unnecessarily pejorative, it is lacking in sufficient detail to identify the car class.
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2022 5:47 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR "wrong-way" door car - Photo: New England Alcohol Company Tank Car NEACX 32
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn. 
That's a great two-fer! A Pennsy X25 box car and a classic Autocar truck! 
The X25 cars were the first steel-sheathed box cars for the Pennsy. Almost 10,000 were built between 1915 and 1919. 
Eric Hansmann 
Murfreesboro, TN 
On 07/01/2022 4:25 PM Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote: 
Thanks for the pointer.  I fund this (new to me) car:https://mohistory.org/collections/item/P0403-12111-03-4a?fullscreen=1


Robert kirkham
 

I’ve been wondering about whether to build an X23 model for a while, without ever noticing the X25 and its variants.  Spent some enjoyable time looking at Rich Orr’s web pages.  At 9600+ cars, it's a sizeable fleet in North America and worth attention.  Its larger than, for example, the CPR mini-box fleet (7500 cars - although with CPR as my home road, the miniboxes need to be routinely visible).   

When i was skimming through the MO History web site collection, there was a close up of an open door.  I didn’t take the time to check, but believe it was the same X25 class.  Will send a reference if i can find it again. 

Rob 

On Jul 2, 2022, at 6:32 AM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Rob,

As noted by others, nope, not at all surprised, but then I am very familiar with PRR's boxcar classes and know that the left opening doorway on a steel boxcar (along with the deep fishbelly centersill) are all spotting features of the X25 class. That centersill was inherited from the X23 class (also left opening door). The X25 represents the pioneering class of all-steel boxcars on the PRR. A smaller subclass,. X25A, was built with double doors and an end door for automobile loading service. Unlike the X24 and X28 classes, the X25A kept the same roof height as its general service counterpart (X23, X29 in the other cases). You will note that the main door being left opening is subtly carried over in the X25A (and X24) as these cars have the double door offset to the right, not the left, as you may be used to in later double door automobile cars such as the X28 and X31.

As noted already, Westerfield offers(ed) the X25 and X25A as flat resin kits so no need to kitbash.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2022 11:53 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR X25 was PRR "wrong-way" door car - Photo: New England Alcohol Company Tank Car NEACX 32
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn. 
lol, that gave me chuckle.  I really thought the quote marks would indicate it wasn’t so much my choice of words as a descriptive label i’ve seen used somewhere else.  First time i’ve been accused of being unnecessarily pejorative to a freight car.  (smiling here, btw - not at all upset to be corrected).  Point taken, i will reform my language choices going forward.   But, tell me for real, were you really surprised to find it was a car with a left opening door.   And was there more than one class of PRR cars that had left opening doors?   (I really don’t know the answer to that, so am curious).

I am grateful that Eric was able to identify the class.  These haven’t been on my radar.  I really like the fishbelly centre sill.   It would make an interesting model; possibly workable as a kitbash?

Rob 

On Jul 1, 2022, at 7:43 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Eric,

Thanks for pointing out that this is an X25. The terminology "wrong way" door is outmoded and inaccurate. There is nothing "wrong" about a left opening door and in fact, it was quite common with the X23 also having a left opening door, along with many other cars of many other roads, so the term is not only unnecessarily pejorative, it is lacking in sufficient detail to identify the car class.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2022 5:47 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR "wrong-way" door car - Photo: New England Alcohol Company Tank Car NEACX 32
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn. 
That's a great two-fer! A Pennsy X25 box car and a classic Autocar truck! 

The X25 cars were the first steel-sheathed box cars for the Pennsy. Almost 10,000 were built between 1915 and 1919. 


Eric Hansmann 
Murfreesboro, TN 

On 07/01/2022 4:25 PM Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:


Thanks for the pointer.  I fund this (new to me) car:https://mohistory.org/collections/item/P0403-12111-03-4a?fullscreen=1 




Robert kirkham
 

I mentioned the other day that there may be another photo of the PRR X25 noted in the MO History collection.   I think this may be such a car - patch panels, left opening door.  Not sure - no clear spotting feature to my eyes.  https://mohistory.org/collections/item/P0403-12111-02-4a  June 18, 1943.  

Rob

On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:11 AM, Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

I’ve been wondering about whether to build an X23 model for a while, without ever noticing the X25 and its variants.  Spent some enjoyable time looking at Rich Orr’s web pages.  At 9600+ cars, it's a sizeable fleet in North America and worth attention.  Its larger than, for example, the CPR mini-box fleet (7500 cars - although with CPR as my home road, the miniboxes need to be routinely visible).   

When i was skimming through the MO History web site collection, there was a close up of an open door.  I didn’t take the time to check, but believe it was the same X25 class.  Will send a reference if i can find it again. 

Rob 

On Jul 2, 2022, at 6:32 AM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Rob,

As noted by others, nope, not at all surprised, but then I am very familiar with PRR's boxcar classes and know that the left opening doorway on a steel boxcar (along with the deep fishbelly centersill) are all spotting features of the X25 class. That centersill was inherited from the X23 class (also left opening door). The X25 represents the pioneering class of all-steel boxcars on the PRR. A smaller subclass,. X25A, was built with double doors and an end door for automobile loading service. Unlike the X24 and X28 classes, the X25A kept the same roof height as its general service counterpart (X23, X29 in the other cases). You will note that the main door being left opening is subtly carried over in the X25A (and X24) as these cars have the double door offset to the right, not the left, as you may be used to in later double door automobile cars such as the X28 and X31.

As noted already, Westerfield offers(ed) the X25 and X25A as flat resin kits so no need to kitbash.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2022 11:53 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR X25 was PRR "wrong-way" door car - Photo: New England Alcohol Company Tank Car NEACX 32
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn. 
lol, that gave me chuckle.  I really thought the quote marks would indicate it wasn’t so much my choice of words as a descriptive label i’ve seen used somewhere else.  First time i’ve been accused of being unnecessarily pejorative to a freight car.  (smiling here, btw - not at all upset to be corrected).  Point taken, i will reform my language choices going forward.   But, tell me for real, were you really surprised to find it was a car with a left opening door.   And was there more than one class of PRR cars that had left opening doors?   (I really don’t know the answer to that, so am curious).

I am grateful that Eric was able to identify the class.  These haven’t been on my radar.  I really like the fishbelly centre sill.   It would make an interesting model; possibly workable as a kitbash?

Rob 

On Jul 1, 2022, at 7:43 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Eric,

Thanks for pointing out that this is an X25. The terminology "wrong way" door is outmoded and inaccurate. There is nothing "wrong" about a left opening door and in fact, it was quite common with the X23 also having a left opening door, along with many other cars of many other roads, so the term is not only unnecessarily pejorative, it is lacking in sufficient detail to identify the car class.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2022 5:47 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR "wrong-way" door car - Photo: New England Alcohol Company Tank Car NEACX 32
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn. 
That's a great two-fer! A Pennsy X25 box car and a classic Autocar truck! 

The X25 cars were the first steel-sheathed box cars for the Pennsy. Almost 10,000 were built between 1915 and 1919. 


Eric Hansmann 
Murfreesboro, TN 

On 07/01/2022 4:25 PM Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:


Thanks for the pointer.  I fund this (new to me) car:https://mohistory.org/collections/item/P0403-12111-03-4a?fullscreen=1