Question about 40 ft. gondolas
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Were there any 40 ft. (40-42 ft.) standard design gons other than USRA that could be mass produced in plastic for multiple roads in HO? (Of course, I'm referring to the steam or transition era.) It seems that anytime a new model gon comes out it's 50 ft. or long mill gondola. Or were the designs for these smaller cars so much more different from road to road than box cars? It would appear that most of us North American Modelers need a good proportion of gons like boxcars and hopper cars. I've got a few Sunshine 40 ft. plus Pennsy and Wabash cars to name a few, but it would seem I need more variety.
Forgive me if I've ranted about this before. Is there a market here? If so, manufacturers, hint, hint. Victor Baird |
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Victor. There are these.
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YMMV on if they are accurate enough for you. Brian J. Carlson On Nov 9, 2022, at 3:34 PM, reporterllc via groups.io <reporterllc@...> wrote:
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Brian J. Carlson, P.E. Cheektowaga NY |
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We definitely need more NYC/P&LE gondolas as they were very widely traveled and numbered in the tens of thousands. The below prototypes have never had any model or kit of any kind.
One composite gondola design had over 15,000 members with both wood and steel sides: https://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-270.jpg Lot 448 had an interesting design with ribs extending below the car sides and had 783 members: https://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-448.jpg Lot 719 was a Central-only "War Emergency" design which had 1,100 members; they were later rebuilt as steel cars: https://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-719.jpg Lot 592, 593, 689, and 702 had a design similar to Bethlehem gons and had 3,500 members: https://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-702.jpg In terms of plastic cars, the biggest hole is probably the 41' USRA clone gondola, of which there were 8,500. Sunshine did these in three versions: as-built Murphy ends, as built Dreadnaught ends, and rebuilt with fishbelly side sill and Improved Dreadnaught ends. -Phil |
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lrkdbn
I totally agree about the NYC USRA clone steel gons.Maybe a candidate for 3D printing? Complete drawings are available from the NYCSHS. There was also a rebuilt version that lasted to the PC years that had new sides witha shallow fishbelly contour where the long stakes were on the original USRA design. NYCSHS has drawings for these also. Erie had very similar cars but which had a different arrangement of the drop doors. IRM has drawings of these. They were rebuilt very much the same as NYC's. I think L&N and NC&StL had similar cars also.
Larry King |
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Dave Nelson
For Lot 702, the NYCHS has the following scanned drawings as part of a much larger set of drawings for other gondolas:
(The red highlight is my own note to ignore these lines while green is “Start here”).
Dave Nelson
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of nyc3001 .
[Edited Message Follows] We definitely need more NYC/P&LE gondolas as they were very widely traveled and numbered in the tens of thousands. The below prototypes have never had any model or kit of any kind. |
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lrkdbn
But these are not the 40 ft USRA clone gons-try 10214 which is GA for Lots 548-G and573-G. These are typical for the 4 drop door version of the late 20's.N-38833 is the brake arrangement for 548-G,among others.The main variations in the large group of these cars was either 8 (early 20's) or 4 (ca.1925 and later) drop doors
and a corresponding change from KD (like the USRA composite gon) to KC brakes like the N-38833 drawing. Some cars MAY have had flat plate ends with riveted ribs instead of the 6 corrugation Murphy which were most common.A few late lots had Dreadnaught ends.It would be good if a kit had separate ends to allow for this, like Accurail does on their AAR gondola kit. Larry King |
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Ray Breyer
Everyone's forgetting about THE most important "short" gondola that we all need: the Pennsy GR and GRa. These composite gons were very long-lived, were built in numbers that dwarf anything else, and were built for one of the largest railroads on the planet. I'm not necessarily a SPF, but I realise that they're at the top of everyone's must-have list. To put it in perspective: in 1930 the PRR had 14,076 GRa's on the roster, and 11,163 GR's (the Long Island also had a few hundred). By 1955, the roster was down to 2,005 GRa and 68 GR. 14,076 is a BIG number. That's a larger number than most railroad's entire freight car roster. And that number was far larger in the 1920s. There are other large fleets of gons we need (ACF "catalog" 36-foot all wood; pre-WWII GS gons, IC composite GS, etc), but the place to start is with the GRa. Ray Breyer Elgin, IL
On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 07:28:24 PM CST, Dave Nelson <western.pacific.203@...> wrote:
For Lot 702, the NYCHS has the following scanned drawings as part of a much larger set of drawings for other gondolas:
(The red highlight is my own note to ignore these lines while green is “Start here”).
Dave Nelson
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of nyc3001 .
[Edited Message Follows] We definitely need more NYC/P&LE gondolas as they were very widely traveled and numbered in the tens of thousands. The below prototypes have never had any model or kit of any kind. |
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There is a spreadsheet in the files section of this group listing the known prototype users gondola cars similar to the Accurai 41 foot gon and the degree of "foobieness". Search the files section using the search word "Accurail" and ye shall find. I think it dates from 2011 so may not be up to date with the last 10 years of Accurail paint scheme releases.
I would love to have a PRR and NYC 40'(+) type gondola kits that are accurate for those roads as there were a few still in transcontinental service in the early 1950's timeframe of my tiny Port Costa layout. I am partial to 40' cars as said cars appear in background overhead traffic and the layout is so short (14 feet) that I try to keep the Overland route traffic to 40 foot cars for appearances. A good selection of resin or 3D print alternate ends to adapt the Accurail cars would be nice too. -- Ken Adams Covid Variants may come and go but I choose to still live mostly in splendid Shelter In Place solitude Location: About half way up Walnut Creek Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io |
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Dennis Storzek
On Thu, Nov 10, 2022 at 12:37 PM, Ken Adams wrote:
A good selection of resin or 3D print alternate ends to adapt the Accurail cars would be nice too.Bill Welch used to point out that the improved Dreadnaught ends from the Details Associates GS gon kits would fit the Accurail car, which has the pre-war Dreadnaught ends, but I never tried it. The only other ends that would be appropriate would be "reverse" Dreadnaught, which I think only the C&NW used on one group of cars. In fact, that road had all three styles of ends on different batches of these cars. There are photos in the May and June 2005 issues of Mainline Modeler. Dennis Storzek |
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Sunshine Models Kit #5.1 NYC 52'6" War Emergency Gondola with Composite Sides. I built one years ago, still have it. In the 50's Ulrich offered a very similar kit.
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Eric Hansmann
Is that the same one Tichy offers as an HO scale plastic kit?
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On Nov 10, 2022, at 2:48 PM, Hugh Guillaume via groups.io <mguill1224@...> wrote:
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Kenneth Montero
Eric,
No, rhe Tichy kit is for a 52' long gondola.
sunshine did offer a kit for a 41' war emergency gondola.
Ken Montero
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Tony Thompson
So does F&C, if you’re talking about the car I think you are. Tony Thompson |
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Eric Hansmann
Ken,
Hugh had mentioned a Sunshine Models 52' 6" NYC war emergency gondola. And he mentioned an Ulrich version, which is here.
These are similar to the Tichy model.
Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN
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Eric Hansmann
Wasn't this in plastic at one time? Some early company like Hobbyline.
Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN
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Kenneth Montero
Tichy makes the 52' war emergency gondola in plastic - a one-piece body.
Ken Montero
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golden1014
Victor and Dennis,
Indeed, the DA end fits your Accurail car nicely. I did an article in the SCL Modeler magazine in 2008 (Wow--it's been 14 years already?) covering the ACL gons with both dreadnaught and Improved Dreadnaught ends. John Golden   |
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Jeffrey White
I could use 20 of the IC composite GS and solid bottom gons. 997
of the composite GS gons had steel sides applied in 1944. 20 of
the composite GS gons were still in service at the end date of
this list 1 January 1960. There were still 67 composite solid
bottom gons in service. There were several thousand composite
cons in service on the IC in my 1955 time frame. There were some interesting conversions of these cars. 50 composite solid bottom gons were converted to coke hoppers for the IC owned C&IW. In 1923 several hundred were converted to log cars by removing the wood sides and decking and reinforcing the underframes. 433 were still in service on 1 January 1960. I'm hoping 3D printing gives us some of these much needed models. Jeff White Alma IL On 11/10/2022 10:16 AM, Ray Breyer via
groups.io wrote:
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golden1014
I concur with that, Jeff. IC had over 11,000 of those 40-ft comp gons and they went everywhere in coal service. I have encouraged a few manufacturers to make models of these cars but haven’t been successful…yet. John Golden
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mlredden1
I contacted Jeff last night about working on 3D printing some IC gons. He sent me some info. If anyone has more drawings or photos they could send me off list that would be great. Mike Redden I concur with that, Jeff. IC had over 11,000 of those 40-ft comp gons and they went everywhere in coal service. I have encouraged a few manufacturers to make models of these cars but haven’t been successful…yet. John Golden |
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