Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box


Charles Peck
 

They were ALL "as-built" until some railroads started kit-bashing them.
Our turn now.
Chuck Peck

On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 6:27 PM Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:
Don't know why I would care about an as-built car Don when I am modeling 1955.

Bill Welch


Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Dave,

You could always do one in GN. Their fleet was one of the longest lived in more or less original condition -- some cars were still in revenue service into the 1960s, with AB brakes, of course. IIRC, NYC still had some until after WWII, with a few of the remainer going to the TH&B. The 1950s were more problematical. When I was doing west coast, I limited myself to just two, GN and SP&S.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff ūü¶Ü

On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 5:54 PM Dave Parker via groups.io <spottab=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 02:44 PM, Bill Keene wrote:
This sounds like a good reason to pick up a number of undec cars, re-detail them along with painting and lettering. At least the starting point is good.
Except that it's really, really easy to over-represent the USRA cars if you are trying to build a prototypically accurate fleet.  In 1935 (my year of interest), only one in  ~16 B&M box cars was a USRA car.  It's the other 15 cars that pose the challenge.

I don't think  the percentages are much more favorable on any other road.  Remember, we are talking about 100,000 TOTAL cars (box, hopper, gon).

--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


A&Y Dave in MD
 

This list is dominated by 1950’s era cars. Tables turned for we modelers of earlier eras usually removing AB brakes, finding appreciation  roofs etc.

Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone

On Apr 12, 2020, at 6:28 PM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

ÔĽŅDon't know why I would care about an as-built car Don when I am modeling 1955.

Bill Welch

--
____________________________
David Bott, modeling the A&Y in '34


Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

C'mon Dave,

    I don't think that many B&M modelers, especially of your caliber, will have that much difficulty adding the
fascis strip. Others will simply ignore its lack of presence. But let's all ask ourselves an honest question. Is it
really realistic to expent anyone producing models of a prototype originally constructed prior to WW II, in this 
case a full 20 years earlier, and used by a vast number of roads to produce EXACT models for every railroad 
that that still rostered any of them in the post-WW II period up to the 1960 end date of this list???  If so such
a modeler needs a serious dose of reality as its a pretty ridiculous expectation. You are now out in Santa Fe
territory. IIRC correctly by the beginning of WW II almost all Santa Fe USRA double sheathed cars had been
rebuilt wth steel panel sides such as those offered by Youngstown. To carry your complaint to the expreme
if Rapido were to offer the USRA double sheathed with every modification that every road that ever owned 
such cars made they would have to offer Santa Fe models in the rebuilt form. Perhaps down the road they 
might but I believe Atlas has already addressed that modification. Again for the West Coast the Hill roads,
the GN, NP and SP&S, had thousands of these cars with few major modifications other than AB brakes in the
post war years. Thus those modeling those rads shoud be very happy to see these cars in the form in which
they are about to be offered. With the number and quality of new models we have seen in recent years about 
the only gripe I feel any of us should have is their continually increasing cost, which seems to be going up far 
faster than the average working persons wages.

Codially, Don Valentine


mel perry
 

don't forget the NWP?
mel perry


spsalso
 

I am not very knowledgeable about the variations on these cars.  I do think that for the price, Rapido should do the "easy-peasy" mods.  The fascia strip appears to be such a thing. 


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Randy Hammill
 

Well, that was pretty much our intent with our proposed Bx-11/12/13, etc. project. And Rapido pretty consistently releases many road specific details for their locomotives, so I don’t think it’s unreasonable to consider it a possibility.

Granted, the URSA DS project would be enormous if they did take that route, and with a traditional manufacturing approach a bit more of a challenge.

That’s one of the things we hope to address with our projects. With no risk of insufficient sales (we’re either funded or not), and building exclusively to order, we hope to be able to do projects that address these types of more specific details. It’s just not something that has been done much with freights cars.

The Atlas 1932 ARA car was a step in that direction. Intermountain keeps adding variations to their AAR series of box cars, and their AAR hoppers cover a number of specific prototypes, including a single road bolster.

Regardless, I’m looking forward to the Rapido cars and also seeing what Bill Welch, Ted Culotta, and others do with them.

 Randy
--
‚ÄĒ
Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com


spsalso
 

Randy,

Rapido does indeed release some road specific details for their locomotives.  Unfortunately, many of the details are incorrect.  The current SP&S FA-2 has at least 9 points of failure on that matter.

Athearn has been pretty good about accurate detailing, lately.  I bought a BNSF diesel that was properly detailed for an era a few years ahead of the one I wanted.  I will now modify it to the era of my choice.  And.  It was remarkably affordable.

These new models, while generic and consequently somewhat overpriced, will still be welcome.  


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Kemal Mumcu
 

One thing about these Rapido cars that could be corrected is the incorrect ride height.  They ride high on the trucks.  This was the same problem with the NP cars.  I had to make a jig and sand down the excess bolster material to bring down the car to ride at the right height. 

A possible solution:  Make the cars with the correct bolster ride height and add a fitted washer to deliver the cars.  The toy train types will be happy and more discerning modelers can remove the washer to bring down the car to the right height. 

Colin Meikle

A video from the Pacific Great Eastern of a GN USRA being righted after a wreck.  From the mid-fifties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdtnVk2M3YU&t=2s


Bill Welch
 

On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 08:36 PM, spsalso wrote:
I am not very knowledgeable about the variations on these cars.  I do think that for the price, Rapido should do the "easy-peasy" mods.  The fascia strip appears to be such a thing. 
Edward Sutorik
 To apply the facia, the roof needs to be widened to lap over it. Not sure how easy that will be w/the Rapido model. Easy to do w/the Westerfield kit.

Bill Welch


Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
Colin wrote: ‚ÄúA video from the Pacific Great Eastern of a GN USRA being righted after a wreck.¬† From the mid-fifties.‚ÄĚ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdtnVk2M3YU&t=2s
 
Thanks Colin for the video link, it was fascinating to watch some of the process involved in fixing things up when a mess like that occurs.
 
It looked to me like at some point the wreck crane itself tipped over, and they had to right it again, am I interpreting this correctly?
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 

From: Kemal Mumcu via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 9:01 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box
 
One thing about these Rapido cars that could be corrected is the incorrect ride height.  They ride high on the trucks.  This was the same problem with the NP cars.  I had to make a jig and sand down the excess bolster material to bring down the car to ride at the right height. 

A possible solution:  Make the cars with the correct bolster ride height and add a fitted washer to deliver the cars.  The toy train types will be happy and more discerning modelers can remove the washer to bring down the car to the right height. 

Colin Meikle

A video from the Pacific Great Eastern of a GN USRA being righted after a wreck.  From the mid-fifties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdtnVk2M3YU&t=2s


Bruce Smith
 

Claus,

Correct. Indeed, I see no footage of the GN car being righted, but that wimpy little derrick was clearly not up to the task of lifting the car and remaining upright. It also looks like they may have been dealing with 2 different GN cars, or that they dragged the GN car clear of the cut and then rolled the derrick trying to get it back onto the rails.

Note that the PGE and its successor, BCRail, always had serious avalanche/rock fall problems on many of their lines.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 8:57 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box
 
Hi List Members,
 
Colin wrote: ‚ÄúA video from the Pacific Great Eastern of a GN USRA being righted after a wreck.¬† From the mid-fifties.‚ÄĚ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdtnVk2M3YU&t=2s
 
Thanks Colin for the video link, it was fascinating to watch some of the process involved in fixing things up when a mess like that occurs.
 
It looked to me like at some point the wreck crane itself tipped over, and they had to right it again, am I interpreting this correctly?
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
From: Kemal Mumcu via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 9:01 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box
 
One thing about these Rapido cars that could be corrected is the incorrect ride height.  They ride high on the trucks.  This was the same problem with the NP cars.  I had to make a jig and sand down the excess bolster material to bring down the car to ride at the right height. 

A possible solution:  Make the cars with the correct bolster ride height and add a fitted washer to deliver the cars.  The toy train types will be happy and more discerning modelers can remove the washer to bring down the car to the right height. 

Colin Meikle

A video from the Pacific Great Eastern of a GN USRA being righted after a wreck.  From the mid-fifties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdtnVk2M3YU&t=2s


spsalso
 

Bill,

Your statement about having to widen the model's roof to accept a fascia implies, to me, that that had to have been true for the prototype.  If so, it would seem to mean that the fascias were ONLY applied when new (wider) roofs were, also.

Or.  One could ask:  "Whatever would prompt someone to add a strip of wood at the top of a box car side?"


Ed

Edward Sutorik



On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 07:43 AM, Bill Welch wrote:
On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 08:36 PM, spsalso wrote:
I am not very knowledgeable about the variations on these cars.  I do think that for the price, Rapido should do the "easy-peasy" mods.  The fascia strip appears to be such a thing. 
Edward Sutorik
 To apply the facia, the roof needs to be widened to lap over it. Not sure how easy that will be w/the Rapido model. Easy to do w/the Westerfield kit.

Bill Welch


spsalso
 

Regarding the film of the PGE wreck:

First:  what fantastic quality--color looks near perfect, and picture quality is great

There are two GN cars in the film:  24804 (the one the crane was trying to right) and what could be 2XXX2.

Note that the wreck was being worked from both ends.  Early on, you can see a steam loco with a car equipped with a BIG winch.  They're working the CP car.

For the crane, I don't necessarily think the crane was too small for the job.  It did tip, after all, not "break".  I suspect the crane wasn't blocked adequately.  The ground looked pretty wet.  And squishy.  It appears the car might have been loaded.  There appears to be white material around the car door.  They COULD have emptied the car to make it lighter.  That would have taken a good bit of time, of course.  Judgement call.

The loaded car would have weighed about 120,000 pounds.  60 tons.  They had placed blocking under the car's drawbar, at the end farthest from the crane.  They would then appear to have been planning to lift the near end (to the crane) and swing it towards the track.  The lift would have been about 30 tons.  What's got me puzzled is that there's a cable that attaches to the blocked-up drawbar, travels up the end of the car and over to the crane boom.  I just don't get that.  NOT the crane operator's proudest moment!

Note also that the crane was righted using block and tackle.  Since I don't see a cable going over to the equipment behind the tipped crane, I do wonder if the winch at the other end of the wreck is supplying power.  Or perhaps they had a boat that could pull the cable.  It surely wasn't the four guys who had been pumping the hydraulic jack.


Ed

Edward Sutorik




On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 07:53 AM, Bruce Smith wrote:
Claus,
 
Correct. Indeed, I see no footage of the GN car being righted, but that wimpy little derrick was clearly not up to the task of lifting the car and remaining upright. It also looks like they may have been dealing with 2 different GN cars, or that they dragged the GN car clear of the cut and then rolled the derrick trying to get it back onto the rails.
 
Note that the PGE and its successor, BCRail, always had serious avalanche/rock fall problems on many of their lines.
 
Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
 
 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 8:57 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box
 
Hi List Members,
 
Colin wrote: ‚ÄúA video from the Pacific Great Eastern of a GN USRA being righted after a wreck.¬† From the mid-fifties.‚ÄĚ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdtnVk2M3YU&t=2s
 
Thanks Colin for the video link, it was fascinating to watch some of the process involved in fixing things up when a mess like that occurs.
 
It looked to me like at some point the wreck crane itself tipped over, and they had to right it again, am I interpreting this correctly?
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
From: Kemal Mumcu via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 9:01 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box
 
One thing about these Rapido cars that could be corrected is the incorrect ride height.  They ride high on the trucks.  This was the same problem with the NP cars.  I had to make a jig and sand down the excess bolster material to bring down the car to ride at the right height. 

A possible solution:  Make the cars with the correct bolster ride height and add a fitted washer to deliver the cars.  The toy train types will be happy and more discerning modelers can remove the washer to bring down the car to the right height. 

Colin Meikle

A video from the Pacific Great Eastern of a GN USRA being righted after a wreck.  From the mid-fifties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdtnVk2M3YU&t=2s


Douglas Harding
 

Ed, it is possible the fascia boards were added to reinforce the tops of the siding boards. Vibrations tend to pop nails. Could it be that while the bottom of siding boards popped loose because of water damage and rot, that at the same time the top of the boards popped nails because of car movement and vibration?

 

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of spsalso via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 10:39 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

 

Bill,

Your statement about having to widen the model's roof to accept a fascia implies, to me, that that had to have been true for the prototype.  If so, it would seem to mean that the fascias were ONLY applied when new (wider) roofs were, also.

Or.  One could ask:  "Whatever would prompt someone to add a strip of wood at the top of a box car side?"


Ed

Edward Sutorik



On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 07:43 AM, Bill Welch wrote:

On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 08:36 PM, spsalso wrote:

I am not very knowledgeable about the variations on these cars.  I do think that for the price, Rapido should do the "easy-peasy" mods.  The fascia strip appears to be such a thing. 
Edward Sutorik

 To apply the facia, the roof needs to be widened to lap over it. Not sure how easy that will be w/the Rapido model. Easy to do w/the Westerfield kit.

Bill Welch


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Mine were allegedly shipped March 30 to 1 April, and have yet to appear in Newton MA.  That’s 12-14 days by Canadian mail and USPS..  Hoping for them today.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charlie Duckworth
Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2020 7:29 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

 

Rapido told me that the B units will be here in May. 
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 08:39 AM, spsalso wrote:
Your statement about having to widen the model's roof to accept a fascia implies, to me, that that had to have been true for the prototype.  If so, it would seem to mean that the fascias were ONLY applied when new (wider) roofs were, also.

Or.  One could ask:  "Whatever would prompt someone to add a strip of wood at the top of a box car side?"
The better question might be, "Who thought it was a good idea to omit the fascia in the first place?" I ran into this issue years ago when designing the Accurail USRA car, and made the judgement that it would be more useful to more people to model the cars as most (all?) railroads modified them.

If one understands how these roofs were put together, it becomes obvious that the fascia could be added without replacing the entire roof. This illustration from the 1922 CBC shows a variety of eaves treatments, including one without the fascia as the USRA cars were built:



Since this is a flexible roof, all the sheets have a J bend that hooks into what is labeled the "hook strip." Just replacing the hook strip with a wider one would accommodate the addition of a fascia. I would suspect that replacing the hook strip when the car siding was renewed was common, as by the time all those nails were pulled it was likely pretty bent up. I'll leave it to your imagination how to model it, but note that there should be a step in the roof surface parallel to the eave no matter what.

Dennis Storzek


Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Hi Bill,
   
     Perhaps the easient way to widen the Rapido roof so it overlaps an added fascia strip would 
be to cut it in half lengthwise with a razor saw and add a small strip of styrene in the middle where 
the running board should be able to hide it well and less work is required to have all looking "right".
Don't you think this would work?

Cordially, Don Valentine


Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

    That's a neat bit of film Colin. The first thing I noticed were the untreated ties being used to repair the track.
The second was the Lidgerwood. That puzzled me completely until I saw the wreck crane lying on its side. That 
must have embarrassed someone more the the wreck itself! Then you see the cables moving through the double 
sheave and I knew why the Lidgewood was there. That company made some wonderful equipment for logging
(tower skidders), mining (cable dump cars and such) and railroads (big steam powered winches such as that 
shown mounted on flat cars). The chief use of a Lidgerwood on a railroad was to pull a plow through a series of
open ended gondola type cars with side doors to place ballast or fill outside of the rails. I've never seen one except
in a bunch of photos I have and I've never heard of anyone modeling one. Does anyone have any photos of just
the LIdgerwood itself rather than the whole train with one included?

Cordially, Don Valentine



Dave Parker
 

Don:

The Rapido model is an RTR.  What you suggest might make some sense with a flat resin kit, but it's not necessary.  The Funaro kit has the fascia board, the Westerfield kit does not.  In both cases the drip-edge of the Murphy roof ends up being where it needs to be -- outboard of anything made of wood.

--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA