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Rapido X-3 tank car paint schemes
Dan Miller
Hi all,
I'm looking to add some of the Rapido X-3 tank cars to my roster. I model the early 1930's. How long would the early UTLX paint scheme ("1920's paint scheme" in Rapido's nomenclature), with UNION TANK LINE positioned on the right side of the car, have lasted? Were these cars repainted frequently, or is it likely that cars in this scheme would have lasted at least into the mid-30's? What build, pressure test, or repack/reweigh dates does Rapido include for the 1920's and 1930's schemes? Thanks for any help that those who have received these cars can provide!
Dan Miller
I'm looking to add some of the Rapido X-3 tank cars to my roster. I model the early 1930's. How long would the early UTLX paint scheme ("1920's paint scheme" in Rapido's nomenclature), with UNION TANK LINE positioned on the right side of the car, have lasted? Were these cars repainted frequently, or is it likely that cars in this scheme would have lasted at least into the mid-30's? What build, pressure test, or repack/reweigh dates does Rapido include for the 1920's and 1930's schemes? Thanks for any help that those who have received these cars can provide!
Dan Miller
Dave Parker
Dan:
I model 1934, and I bought one of the "1930s" cars. The pressure-test, repack and brake service stencils are all 1932 dates. The tare weight stencil is original (8-20) as it should be unless the empty weight was substantially changed. Assuming the original Andrews trucks, the only thing likely to trigger a reweigh would be the addition of heater pipes.
I'm waffling about redoing the repack and brake service stencils, but the lettering is very small and you (or at least I) wouldn't be able to tell except in a close-up photo.
Very nice model. Kudos to Steve Hile for helping Rapido to avoid the flaws that afflict some/most of their other pre-WWII models.
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Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA
I model 1934, and I bought one of the "1930s" cars. The pressure-test, repack and brake service stencils are all 1932 dates. The tare weight stencil is original (8-20) as it should be unless the empty weight was substantially changed. Assuming the original Andrews trucks, the only thing likely to trigger a reweigh would be the addition of heater pipes.
I'm waffling about redoing the repack and brake service stencils, but the lettering is very small and you (or at least I) wouldn't be able to tell except in a close-up photo.
Very nice model. Kudos to Steve Hile for helping Rapido to avoid the flaws that afflict some/most of their other pre-WWII models.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA
Dan Miller
Thanks very much for your speedy and helpful response, Dave. I agree that they are nice models and am looking forward to adding some to the fleet. It sounds like the 1930's cars could be a good choice for me.
I'm still curious about how long the 1920's scheme would have reasonably lasted, as the variety of two coexisting schemes would be interesting.
Dan Miller
I'm still curious about how long the 1920's scheme would have reasonably lasted, as the variety of two coexisting schemes would be interesting.
Dan Miller
Dave Parker
Dan:
I agree, and I am similarly curious.
BTW, the drop-in safety placard holders on the Rapido models can be correct for us 1930s types. They first appear on UTLX cars ca. 1927. But, as Steve Hile helped me realize, the holder on the left (ladder) side of the car should be moved left of center, directly opposite the holder on the right-hand side. This seems to have been the arrangement with K brakes. It's an easy fix: I snapped off the left-side holder, cleaned things up with sanding sticks, and just butt-glued it in the correct position.
If I decide to model a truly 1920s car, I will likely remove all four holders and replace them with plain steel ones that can be seen in the builder's photos. Will probably fab those out of some thin shim-stock.
Have fun!
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA
I agree, and I am similarly curious.
BTW, the drop-in safety placard holders on the Rapido models can be correct for us 1930s types. They first appear on UTLX cars ca. 1927. But, as Steve Hile helped me realize, the holder on the left (ladder) side of the car should be moved left of center, directly opposite the holder on the right-hand side. This seems to have been the arrangement with K brakes. It's an easy fix: I snapped off the left-side holder, cleaned things up with sanding sticks, and just butt-glued it in the correct position.
If I decide to model a truly 1920s car, I will likely remove all four holders and replace them with plain steel ones that can be seen in the builder's photos. Will probably fab those out of some thin shim-stock.
Have fun!
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA
Todd Sullivan
Dan,
I am by no means a tank car expert, but being around freight equipment for years has given me some perspective on your question about repaints and relettering. I invite others to contribute more facts and information to my comments below.
I think many older tank cars were not repainted for long periods of time (20+ years), based on encountering them in freight yards around the country. I think this is especially true for older tank cars belonging to UTLX and perhaps GATX and SHPX. The main reason for repainting a car would likely be after a mechanical upgrade or repair, or when the car was renumbered and restencilled for a different commodity. No repairs or upgrades, no renumbering or commodity reassignment meant no repaint or restencil.
Todd Sullivan
I am by no means a tank car expert, but being around freight equipment for years has given me some perspective on your question about repaints and relettering. I invite others to contribute more facts and information to my comments below.
I think many older tank cars were not repainted for long periods of time (20+ years), based on encountering them in freight yards around the country. I think this is especially true for older tank cars belonging to UTLX and perhaps GATX and SHPX. The main reason for repainting a car would likely be after a mechanical upgrade or repair, or when the car was renumbered and restencilled for a different commodity. No repairs or upgrades, no renumbering or commodity reassignment meant no repaint or restencil.
Todd Sullivan
Dave Parker
I would be reluctant to draw any inferences about car-painting practices during what I assume are years following the period covered by this list.
In the 1920s, everything burned coal, a lot of it dirty, and paint technology was primitive by modern standards. My starting point for freight cars in 1934 is to assume a repaint schedule of every 10 years, +/-. I've seen pretty clear evidence for a shorter interval, but not a lot for much longer.
The X-3s in question here were built in 1920, and Dan's query was about the "early" 30s.
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Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA
In the 1920s, everything burned coal, a lot of it dirty, and paint technology was primitive by modern standards. My starting point for freight cars in 1934 is to assume a repaint schedule of every 10 years, +/-. I've seen pretty clear evidence for a shorter interval, but not a lot for much longer.
The X-3s in question here were built in 1920, and Dan's query was about the "early" 30s.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA
Semi-related, I do have a Sunshine Models 10K X-3 kit that I'm going to build in the future whenever I get the Rapido 1930s model to use as a reference. The prototype I'll be building it into is an X-3 that still exists today at the Galveston Railroad Museum, UTLX 31589, which was built 4-18.
The question about using 1920s paint into the late 30s and 40s is one of them, but the other one is would UTLX have started converting their pre-1933 tankers to using AB brakes? I've read that they would've started converting K brakes to AB brakes in the late 30s but I don't know how true that is.
The question about using 1920s paint into the late 30s and 40s is one of them, but the other one is would UTLX have started converting their pre-1933 tankers to using AB brakes? I've read that they would've started converting K brakes to AB brakes in the late 30s but I don't know how true that is.
Be a bit careful. The lot of cars represented by 31589 have some differences in the underframe versus the Rapido cars. Those early X-3's had cast bolsters that were indicated by a pattern of 4 closely spaced rivets where the side sill meets the bolster versus the 6 rivet pattern evident on the Rapido model with its built up bolster. Also, those earlier X-3's had end sills that raked away from the coupler, rather than being straight across.
Also, I believe, that those early cars had 60 inch diameter domes versus the 54" ones on the Rapido car. They did have closely spaced safety valves atop the dome.
Without having my reference material in front of me, I think that the Sunshine kit better serves a later number series by having the built up bolster, straight across end sill and 60 inch dome with wider spaced safety valves. Someone with the book handy will have to provide that better number range, probably cars built in 1923.
Away from home for a day or two,
Steve Hile
Also, I believe, that those early cars had 60 inch diameter domes versus the 54" ones on the Rapido car. They did have closely spaced safety valves atop the dome.
Without having my reference material in front of me, I think that the Sunshine kit better serves a later number series by having the built up bolster, straight across end sill and 60 inch dome with wider spaced safety valves. Someone with the book handy will have to provide that better number range, probably cars built in 1923.
Away from home for a day or two,
Steve Hile
Dan Miller
I have Steve's book in front of me. According to Table 4, the 1923 cars had a 10,000 gallon capacity, 60" domes, fabricated 6-rivet bolsters, straight end sills, a 2 wide-spaced safety valves. The 3,000 cars built to these specifications included 325 cars built by SSC numbered 23520 - 23844 (later converted to class X-4), 1500 cars built by ACF numbered 27825-29324, 675 cars built by SSC numbered 29325-29999, and 500 cars built by Cambria numbered 36500-36999. I believe that this group of cars is the prototype of Sunshine kit 62.1 and Resin Car Works kit 4.01.
Car 31589 is part of a 1,000 car order from ACF in 1917 numbered 31000 to 31999. These 10,000 gallon cars had 60" domes, cast 4-rivet bolsters, tapered end sills, and 2 narrow-spaced safety valves
Dan Miller
Car 31589 is part of a 1,000 car order from ACF in 1917 numbered 31000 to 31999. These 10,000 gallon cars had 60" domes, cast 4-rivet bolsters, tapered end sills, and 2 narrow-spaced safety valves
Dan Miller
Dan Miller
There is still good reason to have the Sunshine and Rapido models alongside one another--the Sunshine dome is 60", whereas the Rapido dome is 54".
Has anyone built a new underframe with tapered end sills to represent one of the earlier cars? For the 6500 gallon cars, I think that a new underframe and a tank with a 48" dome and one safety valve would be needed. For the 10,000 gallon cars, a new 60" dome would be needed with narrow spacing for the two safety valves. Maybe RCW would be interested in doing these parts as a minikit for the old Sunshine 10,000 gal kit, which would take advantage of the the separate tank/dome design of the Sunshine models and produce a prototype that AFAIK isn't available anywhere else.
Dan Miller
Has anyone built a new underframe with tapered end sills to represent one of the earlier cars? For the 6500 gallon cars, I think that a new underframe and a tank with a 48" dome and one safety valve would be needed. For the 10,000 gallon cars, a new 60" dome would be needed with narrow spacing for the two safety valves. Maybe RCW would be interested in doing these parts as a minikit for the old Sunshine 10,000 gal kit, which would take advantage of the the separate tank/dome design of the Sunshine models and produce a prototype that AFAIK isn't available anywhere else.
Dan Miller
Tom Madden
On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 10:57 AM, Dan Miller wrote:
Tom Madden
Thanks Phil! Also agree re: the Class X....I thought that RCW was doing a Class X car as well. A 6500 gallon version is even on their website, but AFAIK it was never available for order: http://resincarworks.com/extras/extras_kit7_utlx_Frank really wants to do several versions of the Class X, but so far none of the patterns he's worked on have been up to his standards. Sometimes even master craftsmen end up in blind alleys.
Tom Madden