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Real or no?


Clark Propst
 

A friend bought me the attached car thinking I'd like it. Flash Sells! Anyway, is this the car there's some controversy over whether it was really painted this way or just an artist painting it on the negative?
Was it a real paint scheme or not?

Thanks,
Clark Propst


Kenneth Montero
 

Clark,

It is an authentic paint job of the body, and the lettering scheme is correct, but the wrong lettering color (white portion is correct, but the rest of it should be blue, not black).
See Railway Prototype Cyclopedia Vol. 6, p. 17 (black & white photo of a similar car, text of this scheme in the note attached to this photo ).

Ken Montero

On 11/04/2020 11:41 AM Clark Propst <cepropst@q.com> wrote:


A friend bought me the attached car thinking I'd like it. Flash Sells! Anyway, is this the car there's some controversy over whether it was really painted this way or just an artist painting it on the negative?
Was it a real paint scheme or not?

Thanks,
Clark Propst


Jerry Michels
 

Also should have Allied Full-Cushion Trucks.  Jerry Michels


Kenneth Montero
 

The Allied Full-Cushion trucks were outlawed in the 1950's, so the current trucks may be close enough - if that paint job was still on the car when that change took place.

Ken Montero

On 11/04/2020 7:11 PM Jerry Michels <gjmichels53@...> wrote:


Also should have Allied Full-Cushion Trucks.  Jerry Michels


Allan Smith
 

The January 1953 ORER Shows these cars listed as 64700-64704 as Freight Equipment. Microscale decal set 87-1512 has the lettering for these cars but in black. Bev-Bell did these cars in the correct colors but on an athearn boxcar.


Al Smith
Sonora CA

On Wednesday, November 4, 2020, 05:13:37 PM PST, Kenneth Montero <va661midlo@...> wrote:


The Allied Full-Cushion trucks were outlawed in the 1950's, so the current trucks may be close enough - if that paint job was still on the car when that change took place.

Ken Montero
On 11/04/2020 7:11 PM Jerry Michels <gjmichels53@...> wrote:


Also should have Allied Full-Cushion Trucks.  Jerry Michels


william darnaby
 

On page 200 of RPCyc 35 is a discussion of the Allied trucks, their issues and the fix.  The same page also has photos of the car in question.

 

Bill Darnaby

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenneth Montero
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 7:14 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io; Jerry Michels <gjmichels53@...>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Real or no?

 

The Allied Full-Cushion trucks were outlawed in the 1950's, so the current trucks may be close enough - if that paint job was still on the car when that change took place.

 

Ken Montero

On 11/04/2020 7:11 PM Jerry Michels <gjmichels53@...> wrote:

 

 

Also should have Allied Full-Cushion Trucks.  Jerry Michels


Bob Chaparro
 

Allied Full-Cushion trucks were banned from interchange in 1959. I don't believe they were ever outlawed, that is, prohibited by law or regulation backed by law.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

 


Gary Roe
 

When I worked for the N&W (1974-1982), we had a few Troop Sleepers that the Wabash had bought and turned into bunk cars for MoW gangs.  They still had the Allied trucks under them; but they obviously were not interchanged.

gary roe
quincy, illinois


On Thursday, November 5, 2020, 10:35:20 AM CST, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:


Allied Full-Cushion trucks were banned from interchange in 1959. I don't believe they were ever outlawed, that is, prohibited by law or regulation backed by law.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

 


earlyrail
 

In 1964 in Seattle there were some Alaska Railroad cars with the Allied Full Cushion trucks
These arrived by barge.    No idea how far the went after that.
(yes, I have photos)

Howard Garner


Kenneth Montero
 

Bob,

I stand corrected. Thank you.

The article cited by Bill Darnaby discussed the Pennsylvania's decision not to accept in interchange most cars equipped with these trucks. Those that were accepted had been modified.

Ken Montero

On 11/05/2020 11:35 AM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:


Allied Full-Cushion trucks were banned from interchange in 1959. I don't believe they were ever outlawed, that is, prohibited by law or regulation backed by law.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA



Tim O'Connor
 


Athearn appears to have gotten the correct lettering colors.


On 11/4/2020 12:10 PM, Kenneth Montero wrote:
Clark,

It is an authentic paint job of the body, and the lettering scheme is correct, but the wrong lettering color (white portion is correct, but the rest of it should be blue, not black).
See Railway Prototype Cyclopedia Vol. 6, p. 17 (black & white photo of a similar car, text of this scheme in the note attached to this photo ).

Ken Montero
On 11/04/2020 11:41 AM Clark Propst <cepropst@q.com> wrote:


A friend bought me the attached car thinking I'd like it. Flash Sells! Anyway, is this the car there's some controversy over whether it was really painted this way or just an artist painting it on the negative?
Was it a real paint scheme or not?

Thanks,
Clark Propst


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Tim O'Connor
 


Ahem. These so-called "bans" were not outright bans -- Cars with "outlawed" equipment were simply not approved
for UNRESTRICTED INTERCHANGE. Railroads could voluntarily continue to use such equipment and railroads could
interchange them by MUTUAL AGREEMENT. I saw many cars with plain bearing trucks being interchanged between
railroads after plain bearings were "banned" in the 1990's.

And these were AAR rules as far as I know. The ICC or FRA would be the authority that gave regulations of this kind the
power of law.


On 11/5/2020 2:05 PM, Kenneth Montero wrote:
Bob,

I stand corrected. Thank you.

The article cited by Bill Darnaby discussed the Pennsylvania's decision not to accept in interchange most cars equipped with these trucks. Those that were accepted had been modified.

Ken Montero
On 11/05/2020 11:35 AM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:


Allied Full-Cushion trucks were banned from interchange in 1959. I don't believe they were ever outlawed, that is, prohibited by law or regulation backed by law.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Randy Hees
 

Following up on Tim's statement.  When doing a comprehensive car inspection (required for a waiver on a 50 year+ old freight car used on a FRA regulated tourist railroad) the FRA will require you to inspect to the standards published in the AAR interchange manual.  The last AAR manual containing 40 ton and 50 ton cars is the 1975 manual and supplement.  (which includes solid journal bearings.)

You can get a waiver for multiple issues... for example for age (50+ years) for lettering (the lettering required for a waiver car is larger than historic reporting marks, and potentially for other issues like cast truck frames with dates before 1926, wheel style, draft gear etc... )

Randy Hees


Dennis Storzek
 

On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 08:59 AM, Randy Hees wrote:
Following up on Tim's statement.  When doing a comprehensive car inspection (required for a waiver on a 50 year+ old freight car used on a FRA regulated tourist railroad) the FRA will require you to inspect to the standards published in the AAR interchange manual.  The last AAR manual containing 40 ton and 50 ton cars is the 1975 manual and supplement.  (which includes solid journal bearings.)
But that point is moot because the FRA wasn't created until SEVEN YEARS after the cut-off date of this discussion group. Yes, in our era the ICC could make force of law rulings, but only in areas where Congress had specifically empowered it to do so, such as safety appliances, power brakes, automatic couplers, etc. Prior to the FRA, there was no overall regulation of the age of rolling stock, it simple had to be properly maintained, and meet certain other requirements to be used in UNRESTRICTED INTERCHANGE. Equipment used solely on the owner's property could be equipped however they wished, which is why we of a certain age could find all sorts of neat antiques in company service. And, as Tim O' pointed out, these antiques could even go off line if the connecting road agreed.

Dennis Storzek