Richmond Fredericksburg and Potomac - Industries originating freight 1945-50
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Ken Roth
I was just given an RFP USRA box and would like to create a realistic waybill for it on my layout. I'm looking for real shippers on the RFP from 1945-1950 era, and products they might have shipped around the country. The RFP originated very little traffic so this might be a tough question, but pipe up if you actually know of one. Thanks, Ken Roth
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Eric Hansmann
The RF&P box car could pick up a load most anywhere, not just along the RF&P. This type of box car usage was just noted in another thread on this list.
Eric Hansmann
Media, PA
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Brian Rochon
Ken,
As Eric stated, a load could come from just about anywhere. However, the RF&P did interchange with the B&O at Potomac Yard in Alexandria, VA. This was the end of the B&O’s Alexandria Branch and, according to the B&O’s October 1, 1941 Official List No. 28 (also known as Form 6, a listing of stations and sidings on the B&O), the following industries were along that branch:
Prince George’s County, MD
District of Columbia
Some of these sound like they would receive hoppers and/or tank cars but some could certainly have loaded box cars destined for the RF&P.
Brian Rochon Silver Spring, MD
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Monday, January 9, 2023 1:58 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Richmond Fredericksburg and Potomac - Industries originating freight 1945-50
The RF&P box car could pick up a load most anywhere, not just along the RF&P. This type of box car usage was just noted in another thread on this list.
Eric Hansmann
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Richard Townsend
Cigarettes are a likely cargo. Richmond was home to Philip Morris and other cigarette manufacturers, but I don’t know if they were on the RF&P. Philip Morris was a huge manufacturer and made many millions of cigarettes every year.
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Greg Davis
Philip Morris had moved south of Richmond to Manchester (not on the RF&P) during the time period in question. There might have been a smaller cigarette producer or two left in Richmond proper but I am unaware if there were or not. There was a lot of industry in Richmond on the RF&P during that time but as I am primarily a ‘70s modeler with a resin kit habit, I have to look up shippers and commodities. John Golden was researching Richmond and likely knows a few from memory.
I’ll dig a few up when I get a chance.
Greg Davis St Pete, FL (by way of Petersburg, VA)
From:
main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Richard Townsend via groups.io <richtownsend@...> Cigarettes are a likely cargo. Richmond was home to Philip Morris and other cigarette manufacturers, but I don’t know if they were on the RF&P. Philip Morris was a huge manufacturer
and made many millions of cigarettes every year. |
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Kenneth Montero
Philip Morris (PM) did not finish moving out to 'South of the James" until 1990. https://www.hmdb.org/m.asp?m=47427 PM was only one of several cigarette manufacturers or tobacco warehouse companies on Tobacco Row along East Cary Street, all of which were served by Southern Railway, along with some other tobacco-related business nearby. This area of Richmond near the James River had lots of urban industrial trackage - tight curves, single-point switches, street running, etc. - well worth modeling.
All of this activity was south of Broad Street, which was the southernmost end of the Richmond, Fredericksburg and Potomac Railroad after 1919 (when the connecting line from the Atlantic Coast Line Railroad at 8th and Byrd Streets to the RF&P on West Broad Street was abandoned).
Bottom line: RF&P did not originate cigarette traffic or tobacco warehouse traffic, or provide "last mile" service for either of these industries.
Ken Montero
MIdlothian, Virginia (15 miles from downtown Richmond, Virginia)
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Earl Tuson
I was just given an RFP USRA box and would like to create a realistic waybill for it on my layout. I'm looking for real shippers on the RFP from 1945-1950 era, and products they might have shipped around the country. The RFP originated very little traffic so this might be a tough question, but pipe up if you actually know of one. Thanks, Ken RothAnother source of general information can be the ICC Freight Commodity Statistics; I've attached the relevant pages from the 1950 edition. The RF&P look like they only originated 275,675 tons out of the 7.9 million tons they hauled that year, or only 3.5% of their total traffic. Of that amount, the largest category is scrap metal, followed by railroad ties. Earl Tuson |
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Bill Parks
On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 10:33 AM, Earl Tuson wrote:
The RF&P look like they only originated 275,675 tons out of the 7.9 million tons they hauled that year, or only 3.5% of their total traffic.Other sources I have read cite around 5% of total freight was originated by the RF&P, so 3.5% for 1950 supports that. Ken - It looks like there was a variety of items that could have been shipped in an RF&P boxcar. I would suggest looking at what Earl shared, and find a product that an industry on your layout would need, and use that. The only issue left is the name of the shipper, and where along the RF&P they were. Unfortunately, my knowledge of the line is for around Alexandria VA, and industries there were primarily receivers, not shippers. -- Bill Parks Cumming, GA Modelling the Seaboard Airline in Central Florida |
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James McDonald
Hello Ken,
As you’ve noted, the RF&P originated very little of its traffic. In 1950 only 3 percent of the RF&P’s traffic originated on-line. Most of those commodities originating on the RF&P moved in/on gons, hoppers, or flats. Others have mentioned cigarettes as a good commodity. If that’s of interest to you I can do some digging into the precise shippers. Cigarettes did represent one of the major commodities originating on the RF&P at this time. However, almost equal to cigarettes is something perhaps more interesting as a commodity: cellulose. Why is that more interesting? Because at the time you’re interested in, one of the largest cellophane film manufacturing plants in the world, if not the world's largest, was on the RF&P. The Sylvania Industrial Corp manufactured cellophane in Fredericksburg beginning in 1930. In 1946 the firm was taken over by American Viscose. That merger completed in 1953 with the plant becoming the Sylvania Division of American Viscose. Railroad employees called the plant “Avisco” and this would likely have been how it was waybilled. I don’t have precise stats for your time period, but by 1961 the RF&P was moving over 7,000 cars to/from the Fredericksburg plant a year (+/- 20 cars a day) and it had become the largest manufacturing enterprise the railroad served. In addition to cellophane, according to an RF&P document, in Fredericksburg Avisco also made "cellulose bands, cellulose casings, plastic molding powders, and textile chemicals.” Avisco shipped finished product to wholesalers all over North America as well as overseas. The firm also moved materials between the Fredericksburg plant and another Avisco facility in Marcus Hook, Pa. In addition to the type of cellophane used in food handling and wrapping things like cigarette packages, Avisco made a number of products for military use, although I forget precisely what. I think it might have been protective clothing and materials used in packing armaments, but I could be wrong there. At any rate, military installations could be an additional consignee for a loaded waybill. Apparently the cellulose used in making cellophane at Fredericksburg came from Ketchikan, Alaska. I’m unclear on how it moved to Virginia, or in what form. If you want suggestions for additional shippers on the RF&P so your car isn’t always waybilled the same, I can do some digging for you. There’s a collection of waybills in the RF&P RR Historical Society archives, but I have only processed a fraction of it and not yet gotten to your date range. Take care, James =-=-= James McDonald Greenbelt, MD. |
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golden1014
Hi Ken,
Cool topic. I'm answering the original question before going down the rabbit-hole of tobacco manufacturers in Richmond, since that wasn't really your original question. There were Plenty (capital P) of customers/shippers/destinations on the RF&P in Richmond. Take a look at Sanborn maps in North Richmond in the Broad Street Station area, around Hermitage Road, and you'll find a ton of big and small shippers. A personal favorite on the RF&P is a brewery on Hermitage Road. I forget the name at the moment but if anyone's interested I can look it up. There was a large packing plant there too--too much to mention. I can do a little research on cigarette manufacturers if anybody's interested as well. That would include which major companies were on which lines. Phillip Morris in particular had several plants around the city, with one on the SAL in South Richmond near Hull Street. There were other manufacturers on the C&O, ACL, Southern and RF&P, plus very large freight houses operated by all those big roads in the city. Your model doesn't necessarily need to be routed "Home" to be prototypically accurate. A car routed "Home" (to home rails, not necessarily Richmond) could be used by any road to move a load to anywhere close to home rails--on SAL, ACL, C&O or Southern in the Richmond area, for example--then dumped on the home road as soon as possible by the shortest route possible. Therefore, routing it to any nearby customer/road that gets it close to home is entirely prototypical. We can go on and on talking about car routing. John Golden |
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Yes the Southern Freight house is still there and is now a restaurant/Brew Pub and is pretty nice Just Say'in Fenton Hi Ken, --
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George Courtney
Just curious. Back in the early 1950's the Reader's Digest was big. I've read they had a publishing plant in Richmond. I don't know if it was actually on the RF&P but for a few days each month a lot of carloads of Reader's Digest would have been shipped out. Does anyone actually know if Reader's Digest would have been shipped to distributors around the nation? I would think by the 1960's it would have been trucked. But in the late 40's to early 50's?
George Courtney |
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For subscribers, the print run was probably sent by storage mail on passenger trains! For retail distribution, it's possible to use REA or LCL for a lot of that. Remember that long distance trucking was still pretty iffy in the 1940's. :-) From long ago discussions on STMFC I think we learned that, in the 1920's at least, about 1/2 of all box car loads were LCL. Even in the 1940's it probably was still more than 10%. Anyone know for sure? On 1/10/2023 6:40 PM, George Courtney via groups.io wrote: Just curious. Back in the early 1950's the Reader's Digest was big. I've read they had a publishing plant in Richmond. I don't know if it was actually on the RF&P but for a few days each month a lot of carloads of Reader's Digest would have been shipped out. Does anyone actually know if Reader's Digest would have been shipped to distributors around the nation? I would think by the 1960's it would have been trucked. But in the late 40's to early 50's? --
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts |
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Ken Roth
Well, one innocent question has brought to light a lot of interesting information. Thanks to everyone for the input. There are definitely several plausible possibilities. The Sanborn maps is a very important tool which I've used other places but it just didn't cross my mind for this question.
Ken Roth |
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Bill McClure
The packing house off Hermitage Road was Kingan & Co. There was also a freight station that fronted on Broad street with team tracks and loading docks for LCL shipments. I photographed one of the outside braced boxcars there in 1957, but it was painted dark green, likely in MOW service. Bill Bill McClure www.billmcclure.smugmug.com |
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Doug Pillow
At that time in RIchmond American Phillip Morris and Liggett &Myers all had tobacco plants there cigarettes were big
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