Scratchbuilding a car in styrene


Bill Welch
 

Exactly Earl, the metal should smoother than the wood after a few years and will reflect the light differently.

Bill Welch


Dennis Storzek
 

Thanks for the detailed explanation Andy. While my references use the terms "early wood" and "late wood" the effect is the same, some parts of a board will shed paint faster than others.

I disagree with calling flat sawn lumber "low value" since most large plank was flat sawn. It was more efficient of both time and material. Small sections, like car siding, could be resawn from thick plank cost effectively and typically were because it was recognized that edge sawn held its paint better. 2x6 plank , the size needed for the lining on single sheathed cars could be done either way. There is certainly enough photo evidence of flat sawn lining. The clearer are builders photos where all the boards look slightly cupped, like barrel staves; a sure sign of flat sawn lumber applied 'bark side out' that has swollen as it absorbed moisture and cupped.

In fact, that could be an interesting effect to capture by scraping the strip to shape.

Dennis Storzek


Scott
 

I look forward to seeing Freds efforts!  His work he has shown in his WP facebook group is always second to none.

Scott McDonald


Fred Jansz
 

Thank you Tony!
Slater's puts 50 strips in a package, where Evergreen and Plastruct offer only 10!
They also sell MEK. Very good.
Fred Jansz


Fred Jansz
 

Thank you Paul, this 'properties and dimensions' sheet is just what I was looking for!
best regards from Holland,
Fred Jansz


Fred Jansz
 

Thank you Scott.
This project will take a while though...
I have the drawings, many pictures and good support.
Now only thing I need is some TIME!
best regards,
Fred Jansz


Randy Hees
 

In the 19th century, you would not be able to see the wood grain on car siding... to see wood grain would indicate poor wood and a terrible paint job...  prior to painting a car would be primed, then "rough stuff" (a cross between body putty and think paint) applied, then scraped or sanded to make a smooth surface, then primed again, before several coats of "color"...  If a passenger car it would then be varnished, lettered, then varnished several more times... I believe that too often modelers 1) are modeling railroads as they fail, and are no longer maintaining equipment, and 2) we overdo textures... including wood grain and canvas roofs... 

The car siding was likely "quarter sawn, vertical grain" as called out in Kirkman's book on freight cars in the Science of Railroads series...  Today a mill cuts a log in slices (or slabs), in quarter sawing, you cut the log into quarters, then cut those in various directions to keep the grain running as closely to vertical when the plank is laying on its broad face.  This is still done for flooring and for fine cabinet work.  It was critical in the 19th century when much of the wood work was by hand.  A hand plane does not like random grain... a hand molding plane likes it even less.

Visible grain would be seen on flat car decks, inside gondolas and on roof walks... 

If you look at photos of D&RGW narrow gauge stock cars (of which many can be found on line), the side boards are not worn grain, but more often the pattern of paint failing, noting that paint fails in part because of the differences in density of the wood as represented by grain... 

Randy Hees


Benjamin Hom
 

Randy Hees wrote:
"I believe that too often modelers 1) are modeling railroads as they fail, and are no longer maintaining equipment, and 2) we overdo textures... including wood grain and canvas roofs..."

Also known as the Sellios-Furlow Effect.


Ben Hom


Dennis Storzek
 

I disagree about the coat of "rough stuff" on freight cars. By the period that single sheathed cars were introduced labor costs were rising and both railroads and car builders were looking to reduce labor costs. By the twenties you can find articles describing board painting machines in the trade press. Four powered rollers, one per side, and just feed the boards through one after the other and sticker stack them to dry. That made sure the T&G edges got a coat of paint before assembly.

As to weather beaten grain, I agree it can be over done. But we can't really model the dterioration of paint on random boards; graining gives the same visual effect.

Dennis Storzek


WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Does anyone have a website for Slaters?
Also how is international shipping for tiny orders?



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Fred Jansz <fred@...>
Date: 3/4/19 9:20 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Scratchbuilding a car in styrene

Thank you Tony!
Slater's puts 50 strips in a package, where Evergreen and Plastruct offer only 10!
They also sell MEK. Very good.
Fred Jansz


Bill Welch
 

https://www.slatersplastikard.com/plastikard/plasticRod.php

Bill Welch
 


Fred Jansz
 

Bill & Bill,
This groups technical facilities give us the possibility to add a 'link'.
Therefore my thank you to Tony starts with a BLUE Slater's, which (blue) indicates a link to the Slater's site has been added.
Click on the word Slayer's and magic! you end up on Slater's site.
Bill, your link is not clickable.
If you mark the lign: https://www.slatersplastikard.com/plastikard/plasticRod.php with your cursor and copy it, then click on the link icon above in the menu and paste the copied line in the field, the link to Slater's has been made.
And is clickable for the rest of us.
Maybe I'm telling you all the obvious, no offence, just a hint.
best regards,
Fred Jansz


Fred Jansz
 

I agree with that, but let's not forget most of us model/collect 1940-1960.
We judge pictures of ss cars taken in the 1950's or even (much) later when they were in company service.
Until the end of the 1940's -and maybe later- car's were regularly cleaned and repainted.
If a ss car was built in the 1930's, it was still be well maintained in the 1940's and might even be so in the 1950's.
So what you see first is deteriorating paint in the 1950's.
I can imagine that after that the wood get's weathered and long after that it breaks up.
See this pic of the WP car I'm building, taken somewhere in the 1990's in Sacramento (car built 1916!).
regards
Fred Jansz


On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 08:50 PM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
As to weather beaten grain, I agree it can be over done. But we can't really model the dterioration of paint on random boards; graining gives the same visual effect.


Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Fred,

I don't want to burst your bubble, but the last 125 (as 2601-26125) of these cars in revenue service were in restricted bulk plaster duty from Gerlach, Nevada, to where I don't know. There were only 24 left by 1958. I have never seen a photo of one of these running in California during their later years, except when they were returned to Sacramento or Oakland for scrapping as your photo shows. Of course, a handful were in MW service, though usually with extra windows and such.

I have a set of those resin castings and someday I will build them up, though I don't know how I would use the car on my SN branch.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 3/6/19 2:03 AM, Fred Jansz wrote:
I agree with that, but let's not forget most of us model/collect 1940-1960.
We judge pictures of ss cars taken in the 1950's or even (much) later when they were in company service.
Until the end of the 1940's -and maybe later- car's were regularly cleaned and repainted.
If a ss car was built in the 1930's, it was still be well maintained in the 1940's and might even be so in the 1950's.
So what you see first is deteriorating paint in the 1950's.
I can imagine that after that the wood get's weathered and long after that it breaks up.
See this pic of the WP car I'm building, taken somewhere in the 1990's in Sacramento (car built 1916!).
regards
Fred Jansz

On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 08:50 PM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
As to weather beaten grain, I agree it can be over done. But we can't really model the dterioration of paint on random boards; graining gives the same visual effect.


Bill Welch
 

OTOH Garth to put Fred out of his misery you could send your castings to Andrew Dahm at Westerfield to make as many copies as Fred wants with him paying the freight all around.

Bill Welch


Andy Carlson
 

Bill, your suggestion would really rankle me.

I worked on these patterns with my friend who died last year. His widow sold everything to a single business in  Georgia, even though I had offered to pay for all of the patterns. Though the buyer paid for the patterns and molds, they were half mine. If Mr. Dahm, or anyone else, were to sell parts from these patterns, I would take offense. Funny how people were complaining about the ebay offerings of copy castings and copy molds just a few months ago, and now we are getting encouragement to repeat.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Wednesday, March 6, 2019, 3:54:38 AM PST, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:


OTOH Garth to put Fred out of his misery you could send your castings to Andrew Dahm at Westerfield to make as many copies as Fred wants with him paying the freight all around.

Bill Welch


gary laakso
 

Andy, how would anyone be encouraging copy castings if no one knew about your role in their creation?   Your note is the first comment on their disputed ownership.  The comment from Bill  was designed to help get the models into modelers’ hands, not dispute your role in the patterns creation that we just found out about now.

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy Carlson
Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2019 5:36 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Scratchbuilding a car in styrene

 

Bill, your suggestion would really rankle me.

 

I worked on these patterns with my friend who died last year. His widow sold everything to a single business in  Georgia, even though I had offered to pay for all of the patterns. Though the buyer paid for the patterns and molds, they were half mine. If Mr. Dahm, or anyone else, were to sell parts from these patterns, I would take offense. Funny how people were complaining about the ebay offerings of copy castings and copy molds just a few months ago, and now we are getting encouragement to repeat.

-Andy Carlson

Ojai CA

 

On Wednesday, March 6, 2019, 3:54:38 AM PST, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

 

 

OTOH Garth to put Fred out of his misery you could send your castings to Andrew Dahm at Westerfield to make as many copies as Fred wants with him paying the freight all around.

Bill Welch


WILLIAM PARDIE
 

I pulled up the Slater site and found .010 X .020 strips but no .010 X .010 strips which started this conversation.  Am I missing something?

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Fred Jansz <fred@...>
Date: 3/5/19 8:53 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Scratchbuilding a car in styrene

Bill & Bill,
This groups technical facilities give us the possibility to add a 'link'.
Therefore my thank you to Tony starts with a BLUE Slater's, which (blue) indicates a link to the Slater's site has been added.
Click on the word Slayer's and magic! you end up on Slater's site.
Bill, your link is not clickable.
If you mark the lign: https://www.slatersplastikard.com/plastikard/plasticRod.php with your cursor and copy it, then click on the link icon above in the menu and paste the copied line in the field, the link to Slater's has been made.
And is clickable for the rest of us.
Maybe I'm telling you all the obvious, no offence, just a hint.
best regards,
Fred Jansz


Tim O'Connor
 


Plastruct has many sizes of styrene strip. Des Plaines Hobbies carries all kinds of
fabulous stuff including all of the Plastruct and Evergreen products, plus amazing stuff
like "hypodermic" stainless steel tubing, wire products, brass products, etc. Buying
from overseas seems rather ridiculous to me. Just my opinion.

Tim O'Connor


On 3/6/2019 12:17 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:
I pulled up the Slater site and found .010 X .020 strips but no .010 X .010 strips which started this conversation.  Am I missing something?

Bill Pardie

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Fred Jansz
 

Bill, you missed 'rod'.
They sell .010 rod.

cheers,
Fred Jansz
I pulled up the Slater site and found .010 X .020 strips but no .010 X .010 strips which started this conversation.  Am I missing something?
 
Bill Pardie