Topics

Scratchbuilding a car in styrene


Fred Jansz
 

Tim,

that's exactly what I've been thinking the last 35 years while modeling US prototype...
Overpaid like 35% on all items you guys buy for peanuts.

cheers,
Fred Jansz

Buying
from overseas seems rather ridiculous to me. Just my opinion.


Fred Jansz
 

Dear Garth,

you're not bursting my bubble at all.
1. I model/collect 1950
2. According to my ORER there were 122 Pullman-built cars in service in 1950; 26001-26125.
3. only 35 of these were in bulk plaster (gypsum) service, running from the plant in Empire to WP interchange in Gerlach, NV, to wherever the customers were located.
    20 equipped with 4 roof hatches and 15 with 2 hatches for bulk plaster (gypsum) loading. Some had removeable bulk heads installed.
4. in 1968 -52 years old- they were still going strong, according to another ORER.
5. Peter Arnold pictured 26019 in revenue/company service in 1974 and others were in service in one way or another untill the end of WP itself (1983). See Jim Eager, page 19.

cheers,
Fred Jansz

Photo © Bob Larson, Oakland 1970


WILLIAM PARDIE
 

In addition to Andy’s kit there was an article on gthese cafs in Mainline Modeler.

Bill Pardie

On Mar 6, 2019, at 8:52 AM, Fred Jansz <fred@...> wrote:

Dear Garth,

you're not bursting my bubble at all.
1. I model/collect 1950
2. According to my ORER there were 122 Pullman-built cars in service in 1950; 26001-26125.
3. only 35 of these were in bulk plaster (gypsum) service, running from the plant in Empire to WP interchange in Gerlach, NV, to wherever the customers were located.
    20 equipped with 4 roof hatches and 15 with 2 hatches for bulk plaster (gypsum) loading. Some had removeable bulk heads installed.
4. in 1968 -52 years old- they were still going strong, according to another ORER.
5. Peter Arnold pictured 26019 in revenue/company service in 1974 and others were in service in one way or another untill the end of WP itself (1983). See Jim Eager, page 19.

cheers,
Fred Jansz

Photo © Bob Larson, Oakland 1970 <WP26072_Bob Larson_1970.jpg>


Charlie Vlk
 

Randy Hees and all-

A question not directly related to Freight Cars other than being a load or possibly mislabeled car siding….

One of the cable TV home remodeling shows has an interior designer that has to use what she calls “shiplap” on every project episode…to the point it could be a drinking game of a shot for every time she mentions it.

I always thought “shiplap” was a profile that had overlapping boards like those on a traditional wooden runabout….somewhat akin to clapboard house siding.   The material she calls “shiplap” is to me a form of tongue and groove siding with a small reveal between boards (more than car siding).  

Modern usage of the term is confused as Wikipedia shows a building with “shiplap” that is a form of Novelty Siding….flat faced vertical board with a scalloped top that fits underneath the next board up.

Anyone have old millwork references that might show correct terminology?

Charlie Vlk 


Jack Burgess
 

Car siding is T&G with a V-grove. Floor material is also typically T&G without the reveal…the advantage of T&G is that the boards will stay flat (for floors) or even with box cars.

 

You can still buy 3 ¼” V-groove T&G from a lumber yard (that is the same size boards typically use for freight cars). I bought some a few months ago and used it to fill in what had originally been lattice work. The hardware was (with permission) removed from a Yosemite Valley Railroad stock car.

 

Jack Burgess

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Charlie Vlk
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 2:13 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Scratchbuilding a car in styrene

 

Randy Hees and all-

A question not directly related to Freight Cars other than being a load or possibly mislabeled car siding….

One of the cable TV home remodeling shows has an interior designer that has to use what she calls “shiplap” on every project episode…to the point it could be a drinking game of a shot for every time she mentions it.

I always thought “shiplap” was a profile that had overlapping boards like those on a traditional wooden runabout….somewhat akin to clapboard house siding.   The material she calls “shiplap” is to me a form of tongue and groove siding with a small reveal between boards (more than car siding).  

Modern usage of the term is confused as Wikipedia shows a building with “shiplap” that is a form of Novelty Siding….flat faced vertical board with a scalloped top that fits underneath the next board up.

Anyone have old millwork references that might show correct terminology?

Charlie Vlk 


Nelson Moyer
 

Evergreen Novelty Siding is actually Dutch Lap.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Charlie Vlk
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 4:13 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Scratchbuilding a car in styrene

 

Randy Hees and all-

A question not directly related to Freight Cars other than being a load or possibly mislabeled car siding….

One of the cable TV home remodeling shows has an interior designer that has to use what she calls “shiplap” on every project episode…to the point it could be a drinking game of a shot for every time she mentions it.

I always thought “shiplap” was a profile that had overlapping boards like those on a traditional wooden runabout….somewhat akin to clapboard house siding.   The material she calls “shiplap” is to me a form of tongue and groove siding with a small reveal between boards (more than car siding).  

Modern usage of the term is confused as Wikipedia shows a building with “shiplap” that is a form of Novelty Siding….flat faced vertical board with a scalloped top that fits underneath the next board up.

Anyone have old millwork references that might show correct terminology?

Charlie Vlk 


Tony Thompson
 

Gosh, Nelson, SP called “this stuff” Novelty on their structures . . .
Tony Thompson 


On Apr 15, 2019, at 4:17 PM, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:

Evergreen Novelty Siding is actually Dutch Lap.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Charlie Vlk
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 4:13 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Scratchbuilding a car in styrene

 

Randy Hees and all-

A question not directly related to Freight Cars other than being a load or possibly mislabeled car siding….

One of the cable TV home remodeling shows has an interior designer that has to use what she calls “shiplap” on every project episode…to the point it could be a drinking game of a shot for every time she mentions it.

I always thought “shiplap” was a profile that had overlapping boards like those on a traditional wooden runabout….somewhat akin to clapboard house siding.   The material she calls “shiplap” is to me a form of tongue and groove siding with a small reveal between boards (more than car siding).  

Modern usage of the term is confused as Wikipedia shows a building with “shiplap” that is a form of Novelty Siding….flat faced vertical board with a scalloped top that fits underneath the next board up.

Anyone have old millwork references that might show correct terminology?

Charlie Vlk 


Nelson Moyer
 

I guess there aren’t  all that many Dutch immigrants in Southern California compared to the Midwest. Here in Iowa, siding that’s vertical with an inward curve and a short flat at the top is Dutch Lap. I have it on my house. CB&Q used it on many of their wood depots, usually on the bottom three to four feet, with board and batten above. The CB&Q depot at Donaldsonville, IA is an example. Clapboard is flat sloping inward from bottom to top.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 7:09 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Scratchbuilding a car in styrene

 

Gosh, Nelson, SP called “this stuff” Novelty on their structures . . .

Tony Thompson 


On Apr 15, 2019, at 4:17 PM, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:

Evergreen Novelty Siding is actually Dutch Lap.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Charlie Vlk
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 4:13 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Scratchbuilding a car in styrene

 

Randy Hees and all-

A question not directly related to Freight Cars other than being a load or possibly mislabeled car siding….

One of the cable TV home remodeling shows has an interior designer that has to use what she calls “shiplap” on every project episode…to the point it could be a drinking game of a shot for every time she mentions it.

I always thought “shiplap” was a profile that had overlapping boards like those on a traditional wooden runabout….somewhat akin to clapboard house siding.   The material she calls “shiplap” is to me a form of tongue and groove siding with a small reveal between boards (more than car siding).  

Modern usage of the term is confused as Wikipedia shows a building with “shiplap” that is a form of Novelty Siding….flat faced vertical board with a scalloped top that fits underneath the next board up.

Anyone have old millwork references that might show correct terminology?

Charlie Vlk 


Tony Thompson
 

Google it and you’ll find that Novelty, Dutch Drop, German Drop, Cove, and Drop siding are all the same thing.
Tony Thompson 


On Apr 15, 2019, at 6:10 PM, Jake Schaible <jjschaible@...> wrote:


Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi Charlie,
 
Most of the home improvement “shiplap” images I’ve seen are real more like the tongue and groove siding used on some wood freight and passenger cars.
 
In the seafaring sense, “shiplap,” is more correctly called “lapstrake” (typically pronounced lap-strack) or “clinker-built.”  The architectural equivalent would be clapboard (sometimes pronounced kla-bord).  So, what you “always thought” is correct.
 
I suspect some ignorant home improvement guru called it “shiplap,” others liked the name, and the misnomer stuck.  Oh, well . . .
 
In any event, I don’t know of any instances in which such siding was used on either freight or passenger cars.  Not to say it wasn’t, but I’ve yet to see or hear of examples of it.
 
Pax,
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 

From: Charlie Vlk
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 5:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Scratchbuilding a car in styrene
 

Randy Hees and all-

A question not directly related to Freight Cars other than being a load or possibly mislabeled car siding….

One of the cable TV home remodeling shows has an interior designer that has to use what she calls “shiplap” on every project episode…to the point it could be a drinking game of a shot for every time she mentions it.

I always thought “shiplap” was a profile that had overlapping boards like those on a traditional wooden runabout….somewhat akin to clapboard house siding.   The material she calls “shiplap” is to me a form of tongue and groove siding with a small reveal between boards (more than car siding).  

Modern usage of the term is confused as Wikipedia shows a building with “shiplap” that is a form of Novelty Siding….flat faced vertical board with a scalloped top that fits underneath the next board up.

Anyone have old millwork references that might show correct terminology?

Charlie Vlk 


Tony Thompson
 

Ralph Brown wrote:

In the seafaring sense, “shiplap,” is more correctly called “lapstrake” (typically pronounced lap-strack) or “clinker-built.”  The architectural equivalent would be clapboard (sometimes pronounced kla-bord).  So, what you “always thought” is correct.

    Sorry, Ralph, not so. Clapboard and lap-strake have similarities, but they are NOT the same as shiplap. True shiplap is just a plain board rabbeted top and bottom for a snug fit. That is not true of clapboard. Novelty or Drop siding has a more sculptured overlap, but shiplap has none. Sometimes shiplap is laid with a slight gap between boards (revealing the rabbet) but is normally laid tight.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Ralph W. Brown
 

Nice, Jack!
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 

From: Jack Burgess
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 6:50 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Scratchbuilding a car in styrene
 

Car siding is T&G with a V-grove. Floor material is also typically T&G without the reveal…the advantage of T&G is that the boards will stay flat (for floors) or even with box cars.

 

You can still buy 3 ¼” V-groove T&G from a lumber yard (that is the same size boards typically use for freight cars). I bought some a few months ago and used it to fill in what had originally been lattice work. The hardware was (with permission) removed from a Yosemite Valley Railroad stock car.

 

Jack Burgess

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Charlie Vlk
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 2:13 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Scratchbuilding a car in styrene

 

Randy Hees and all-

A question not directly related to Freight Cars other than being a load or possibly mislabeled car siding….

One of the cable TV home remodeling shows has an interior designer that has to use what she calls “shiplap” on every project episode…to the point it could be a drinking game of a shot for every time she mentions it.

I always thought “shiplap” was a profile that had overlapping boards like those on a traditional wooden runabout….somewhat akin to clapboard house siding.   The material she calls “shiplap” is to me a form of tongue and groove siding with a small reveal between boards (more than car siding).  

Modern usage of the term is confused as Wikipedia shows a building with “shiplap” that is a form of Novelty Siding….flat faced vertical board with a scalloped top that fits underneath the next board up.

Anyone have old millwork references that might show correct terminology?

Charlie Vlk 


Nelson Moyer
 

Not quite that simple. Novelty siding is a generic category, and there are many sub-categories.

 

http://www.woodsiding.com/pattern.htm

 

Both clapboard and shiplap are sub-categories of novelty siding.

 

Vinyl Dutch Lap siding has a slightly different profile than the wood version.

 

http://www.all-about-siding.com/dutch-lap-siding.html

 

 

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 9:18 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Scratchbuilding a car in styrene

 

Google it and you’ll find that Novelty, Dutch Drop, German Drop, Cove, and Drop siding are all the same thing.

Tony Thompson 


On Apr 15, 2019, at 6:10 PM, Jake Schaible <jjschaible@...> wrote:

No Joanna... that's not Shiplap.

 

https://thecraftsmanblog.com/no-joanna-thats-not-shiplap/


Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi Tony,
 
I don’t think we really have a disagreement here.  I understand what is being called “shiplap,” but regardless of what it’s called, it has nothing to do with boat or ship building methods.  As such, it is a complete and total misnomer.  As far as I know, it has nothing to do with freight car construction either.
 
How did we get off onto “shiplap” anyway?
 
Pax,
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 

From: Tony Thompson
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 10:53 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Scratchbuilding a car in styrene
 
Ralph Brown wrote:

In the seafaring sense, “shiplap,” is more correctly called “lapstrake” (typically pronounced lap-strack) or “clinker-built.”  The architectural equivalent would be clapboard (sometimes pronounced kla-bord).  So, what you “always thought” is correct.

    Sorry, Ralph, not so. Clapboard and lap-strake have similarities, but they are NOT the same as shiplap. True shiplap is just a plain board rabbeted top and bottom for a snug fit. That is not true of clapboard. Novelty or Drop siding has a more sculptured overlap, but shiplap has none. Sometimes shiplap is laid with a slight gap between boards (revealing the rabbet) but is normally laid tight.
 
Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
 



 


Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 07:45 PM, Ralph W. Brown wrote:
I suspect some ignorant home improvement guru called it “shiplap,” others liked the name, and the misnomer stuck.  Oh, well . . .
No, "shiplap" used to have a specific meaning in the lumber and construction industries, it was lumber with the edges milled with a rabbet on each edge half the width of the edge, so the boards overlapped when laid flat. Nothing was said about how the surface of the board was milled, and shiplap was common on lesser quality boards that were typically used for the sub-flooring under hardwood floors, and sub-siding behind the finish siding. Back in the days before house wraps, the overlapping joints kept out the drafts even if the boards shrank. The home improvement gurus seem to be using the general term for other patterns that provide a rabbet for the top edge, even though the generally accepted term for these patterns was "novelty siding" with different mills having specific names for the pattern of the cut-out reveal: Drop siding, Duch drop, Dolly Varden...

The self covering of the gap at the joint is the reason why the Master Car Builders Association adopted the pattern for flooring and lining of boxcars; if the boards shrank as they dried out, they still wouldn't leak grain from the joints. Several of the mill sections shown in this illustration from the 1922 CBC are shiplap:



George LaPray
 

A number of years ago, I was in a Menard;s store (Wisc. based home improvement chain similar to Lowe's Home Depot) and they were selling a product they called "car siding" which appeared to be just that, railroad freight car siding.   Maybe Menards had a unique take on what "car siding was/is since a number of members of the family were long time C&NW veterans.

George LaPray


Dennis Storzek
 

Finally found a current version of the WWPA standard architectural siding patterns, which should give some form to all the names that have come up in this discussion. WWPA Siding Patterns

 Dennis Storzek


Dennis Storzek
 

And another interesting page that illustrates the proper use of the terms T&G. shiplap, bevel siding and drop siding, for those who care. While not very applicable to freightcars, all these wood products were carried in freightcars at one time:

horizontal-siding-guide


Charlie Vlk
 

All-

My off-topic inquiry did reveal that lapped profile boards did make it into car interiors and floors for their intrinsic ability to provide a tighter car for grain and other loads.

And as somebody mentioned the term I was really thinking of was “lapstrake”.

I didn’t expect to see a website dedicated to Joanna’s not shiplap and I’m happy I asked.

Thanks,

Charlie Vlk