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Seaboard B3 boxcars
ThisIsR@...
In reference to the SAL B3 boxcar discussion: I have a few
questions and comments.
1)Mr.Hendrickson:How could I get copies of your photos of the SAL B3-
B4-B5 boxcars? I have a bad copy of a B3.
2)What exactly are "lumber doors?" I cannot see any indication of
doors in the car ends. Also the ends of the car appear to be flat...
no corrugations that I can see.
I also have a copy of SAL's Condensed Roster of Equipment dated
Dec. 31,1949. There is no notation of "lumber doors" associated with
the B3/B4 classes. In 1949 Seaboard had 468 B3s and 633 B4s in
operation. I also have a roster dated 3/24/39. Again there is no
notation regarding "lumber doors." FWIW...in 1939 Seaboard had 926
B3s and 946 B4s in operation. The war was certainly tough on rolling
stock!
Richard Stallworth
Seaboard Air Line...Through The HEART of the South!!!!!
questions and comments.
1)Mr.Hendrickson:How could I get copies of your photos of the SAL B3-
B4-B5 boxcars? I have a bad copy of a B3.
2)What exactly are "lumber doors?" I cannot see any indication of
doors in the car ends. Also the ends of the car appear to be flat...
no corrugations that I can see.
I also have a copy of SAL's Condensed Roster of Equipment dated
Dec. 31,1949. There is no notation of "lumber doors" associated with
the B3/B4 classes. In 1949 Seaboard had 468 B3s and 633 B4s in
operation. I also have a roster dated 3/24/39. Again there is no
notation regarding "lumber doors." FWIW...in 1939 Seaboard had 926
B3s and 946 B4s in operation. The war was certainly tough on rolling
stock!
Richard Stallworth
Seaboard Air Line...Through The HEART of the South!!!!!
Richard Hendrickson
In reference to the SAL B3 boxcar discussion: I have a fewRichard, the easiest way would be for me to send JPEGs if you can use them.
questions and comments.
1)Mr.Hendrickson:How could I get copies of your photos of the SAL B3-
B4-B5 boxcars? I have a bad copy of a B3.
2)What exactly are "lumber doors?" I cannot see any indication ofThese were small doors in the upper part of one end (almost always the A
doors in the car ends. Also the ends of the car appear to be flat...
no corrugations that I can see.
end, though perhaps not on these cars) through which long pieces of lumber
and similar cargo could be loeaded one piece at a time, back in the days
when labor was cheap. They were common on cars built prior to WW II for
the northwestern RRs like the GN and MILW, though less widely used in other
parts of the country.
The corrugated ends were applied only to the B-3 class. The other two
classes had flat riveted steel ends with internal posts like those on the
Pennsy X29s.
Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520
ibs4421@...
Dr. H. writes:
They were common on cars built prior to WW II for
the northwestern RRs like the GN and MILW, though less widely used in other
parts of the country.
His student and admirer replies:
It does not suprise me that there might be plenty of these cars for SAL or other SE RR's as there was a thriving lumber industry going on in the South from 1900-1930, especailly so during and just after WWI. I was unaware just how widespread this was until I got a copy of "Logging Railroads of Alabama." There were still vast stands of virgin timber in central and lower Alabama (L.A.) into the 20's. My grandfather ran a logging/timber/lumber business in East-Central Alabama until the Depression wiped him out. As I understand it, there was a similar volume of logging going on in other SE states during the same period. That being said, it does not suprise me that the SAL and others may have had a significant number of boxcars with "lumber doors."
Warren Dickinson
They were common on cars built prior to WW II for
the northwestern RRs like the GN and MILW, though less widely used in other
parts of the country.
His student and admirer replies:
It does not suprise me that there might be plenty of these cars for SAL or other SE RR's as there was a thriving lumber industry going on in the South from 1900-1930, especailly so during and just after WWI. I was unaware just how widespread this was until I got a copy of "Logging Railroads of Alabama." There were still vast stands of virgin timber in central and lower Alabama (L.A.) into the 20's. My grandfather ran a logging/timber/lumber business in East-Central Alabama until the Depression wiped him out. As I understand it, there was a similar volume of logging going on in other SE states during the same period. That being said, it does not suprise me that the SAL and others may have had a significant number of boxcars with "lumber doors."
Warren Dickinson
Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
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ICC data from 1950 indicates the deep south shipped 1/3 of the limber
tonnage in the U.S., with Georgia and Alabama leading with 6% each. From
other sources I recall gaining an understanding that the ICC set rates for
lumber in a manner that effectively allocated markets (as was their
practice) and that the boundary line that divided southern from western
supplied markets moved over the years -- generally opening up more and more
of the upper midwest and eastern markets to west coast lumber. But in the
earlier years (perhaps those cited above) low rates from the South ensured
they provided lumber to most everywhere east of the Mississippi river.
Dave Nelson
-----Original Message-----
It does not suprise me that there might be plenty of these
cars for SAL or other SE RR's as there was a thriving lumber
industry going on in the South from 1900-1930, especailly so
during and just after WWI. I was unaware just how widespread
this was until I got a copy of "Logging Railroads of Alabama."
There were still vast stands of virgin timber in central and
lower Alabama (L.A.) into the 20's.
ICC data from 1950 indicates the deep south shipped 1/3 of the limber
tonnage in the U.S., with Georgia and Alabama leading with 6% each. From
other sources I recall gaining an understanding that the ICC set rates for
lumber in a manner that effectively allocated markets (as was their
practice) and that the boundary line that divided southern from western
supplied markets moved over the years -- generally opening up more and more
of the upper midwest and eastern markets to west coast lumber. But in the
earlier years (perhaps those cited above) low rates from the South ensured
they provided lumber to most everywhere east of the Mississippi river.
Dave Nelson
Hi guys,
Replying to the question 22 years ago about the mysterious lumber doors on Seaboard SAL B3 and B4 boxcars, they were located at the top right of the flat plate riveted ends (X29-style) on the B4 cars. I believe this picture of a B4 in Seaboard MW service shows the vestigial lumber door. I have not seen an A-end-view of a B3 boxcar but they had corrugated ends. Maybe in 22 years... Owen Thorne, Cecil County, MD
--
T. Owen Thorne
Cecil County MD USA
owen at udel dot edu
Replying to the question 22 years ago about the mysterious lumber doors on Seaboard SAL B3 and B4 boxcars, they were located at the top right of the flat plate riveted ends (X29-style) on the B4 cars. I believe this picture of a B4 in Seaboard MW service shows the vestigial lumber door. I have not seen an A-end-view of a B3 boxcar but they had corrugated ends. Maybe in 22 years... Owen Thorne, Cecil County, MD
--
T. Owen Thorne
Cecil County MD USA
owen at udel dot edu