Shipping Bulk Cement - not on the RR?


Jim Betz
 

Hi,
  Although not directly related to the topic of this list - I have no other good
place to ask ...

  If you have a cement plant and it is shipping bagged in box cars and bulk
in hopper cars ... how did it ship to a local Concrete plant that was not
rail served?

  It seems to me its highly unlikely that they shipped bagged cement to a
ready mix plant that wasn't on an RR.  Do you know of such a plant and
how it got/gets its bulk cement?
                                                                                - Jim 


John Sykes III
 

Same as today, by bulk hopper truck.


Clark Propst
 

Here in Iowa trucks were not allowed to haul from cement plants until 1960. In other words cement plants only shipped by rail. I do have a photo of guys emptying bags at a readi-mix facility. How common was that? 
If trucks were allowed into cement plants before that date in other states one would need to know when the type of trailer used to haul cement was in universal use? Late 50s? More questions...

Clark propst


John Sykes III
 

It just dawned on me that, before bags, cement was shipped in barrels.  For a bulk shipment, I guess you could just use bigger barrels, similar to the LCL containers used in the late 40s and early 50s to ship cement from the Lehigh Valley into NYC.  Need some photo documentation, though.

-- John


Edward
 
Edited

Here is a Lehigh Valley gondola, modified to carry bulk cement cannisters.
They were loaded and unloaded using compressed air.
They generally ran from eastern Pennsylvania to the Hudson River, where loaded cannisters were put onto barges for delivery to various locations around NY City.
From the barges, cannisters were taken by truck to construction sites (like NY World Trade Center when it was being built) and where the final mixing for concrete was done.
Empty cannisters went back by barge to the LV, for a return trip to be refilled.
The NY Central and the D&H also carried bulk cement cannisters this way.

Ed Bommer


Dennis Storzek
 

On Sun, Jun 6, 2021 at 09:02 AM, Jim Betz wrote:
It seems to me its highly unlikely that they shipped bagged cement to a
ready mix plant that wasn't on an RR.  Do you know of such a plant and
how it got/gets its bulk cement?
Ready mix? That's a relatively new concept, dating to the thirties. Before that, materials were delivered to the job site and mixed there. Cement typically came in bags - the perfect container. Labor was cheap, bags were small enough to move by hand, and kept the cement clean and free of contamination until the bag was emptied directly into the mixer... and, the cloth bags were returnable and reusable.

After WWII labor costs increased, better mechanical mixers were developed, combined with trucks, and the redi-mix industry was born. Concurrent with that, the trucking industry was making in-roads into the railroad's monopoly on the transportation of bulk materials. I ran into a web history that put the sart of bulk cement hauling "post WWII" using screw auger trailers, and the first pneumatic bulker at 1959.

Dennis Storzek


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Yes, I knew of one when I was ~10 years old and those were BIG HEAVY TRUCKS.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Betz
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2021 12:03 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Shipping Bulk Cement - not on the RR?

 

Hi,
  Although not directly related to the topic of this list - I have no other good
place to ask ...

  If you have a cement plant and it is shipping bagged in box cars and bulk
in hopper cars ... how did it ship to a local Concrete plant that was not
rail served?

  It seems to me its highly unlikely that they shipped bagged cement to a
ready mix plant that wasn't on an RR.  Do you know of such a plant and
how it got/gets its bulk cement?
                                                                                - Jim 


Jeffrey Gray
 

Boy, what a car to model! Talk about “weathering”! Meanwhile, the thread started I think with bags (at 94 pounds) each, loaded into boxcars, and yes in some situations construction jobs did take delivery of bag and barrel cement years ago. Those fellows (the laborers – were pretty tough I think), but, and maybe I saw in the Lee Rainey “East Broad Top” book,  there is a photo of an early LV or LNE covered hopper riding on 3 foot narrow gauge trucks during the construction of the Pennsylvania Turnpike, circa. 1940, to deliver bulk cement to an on-site batching plant. Also, I think in those times cement was maybe handled in “Link-Belt” style elevating bucket conveyors as I don’t think air handling was being used, as it is the method today. Dry Bulk tank trailers, maybe a truck person like Mont can advise on this technology. This is an interesting  rabbit hole, considering the car routing subject. Hey, maybe that Covered Hopper went via LV, to Reading, to PRR (Mt. Union) to EBT! Now that would be a cool waybill! Maybe it was even on the Catasauqua Branch too!

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Edward
Sent: Sunday, June 6, 2021 3:38 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Shipping Bulk Cement - not on the RR?

 

[Edited Message Follows]

Here is a Lehigh Valley gondola, modified to carry bulk cement cannisters.
They were loaded and unloaded using compressed air.
They generally ran from eastern Pennsylvania to the Hudson River, where loaded cannisters were put onto barges for delivery to various locations around NY City.
From the barges, cannisters were taken by truck to construction sites (like NY World Trade Center when it was being built) and where the final mixing for concrete was done.
Empty cannisters went back by barge to the LV, for a return trip to be refilled.
The NY Central and the D&H also carried bulk cement cannisters this way.

Ed Bommer

 


Ken O'Brien
 

Each canister was 22K pounds gross weight. They were from LCL Corp and were used by NYC, DL&W, and D&H also. LV and DL&W floated them across to NY Cty during the building boom after WWII. They were air activated; the hose went thru the holes in the car sides.


Ken O'Brien
 

Sorry, left my name off.

Ken O'Brien


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Reflecting on my answer, I should have mentioned that the BIG HEAVY TRUCKS were flatbed trucks with the palletized loads strategically located over the rear wheels of the trailers.  The bags on the pallets were wrapped with tarps to try to keep rain off.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2021 3:48 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Shipping Bulk Cement - not on the RR?

 

Yes, I knew of one when I was ~10 years old and those were BIG HEAVY TRUCKS.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Betz
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2021 12:03 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Shipping Bulk Cement - not on the RR?

 

Hi,
  Although not directly related to the topic of this list - I have no other good
place to ask ...

  If you have a cement plant and it is shipping bagged in box cars and bulk
in hopper cars ... how did it ship to a local Concrete plant that was not
rail served?

  It seems to me its highly unlikely that they shipped bagged cement to a
ready mix plant that wasn't on an RR.  Do you know of such a plant and
how it got/gets its bulk cement?
                                                                                - Jim 


Clark Propst
 

I don't know when barrels gave way to cloth sacks, but would believe it was before WWII. Paper bags came in the early 50s I believe? Cement was sold by the barrels for years after. 4 sacks to a barrel @ 94lbs a sack you can do the math for the weight of a barrel  ;  ))

Cement company logos were designed to fit on a barrel lid.

Clark Propst


Douglas Harding
 

Bulk cement was also shipped in boxcars. Track was laid to the construction site for big projects. Here is a blog about the building of the Coulee Dam. Scroll down Thursday, December 12, 2019 for photos of the special “pumps” used to unload the boxcars.

http://www.bigbendrailroadhistory.com/search?q=dam+cement

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Clark Propst via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, June 6, 2021 5:06 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Shipping Bulk Cement - not on the RR?

 

I don't know when barrels gave way to cloth sacks, but would believe it was before WWII. Paper bags came in the early 50s I believe? Cement was sold by the barrels for years after. 4 sacks to a barrel @ 94lbs a sack you can do the math for the weight of a barrel  ;  ))

Cement company logos were designed to fit on a barrel lid.

Clark Propst


Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Just a quick comment … the cylindrical cement containers pictured are now available for HO modelers in 3D-Printed form from Bowser. Many years back Athearn also offered them in a cruder injection-molded form.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Jun 6, 2021, at 6:53 PM, Douglas Harding <iowacentralrr@...> wrote:

Bulk cement was also shipped in boxcars. Track was laid to the construction site for big projects. Here is a blog about the building of the Coulee Dam. Scroll down Thursday, December 12, 2019 for photos of the special “pumps” used to unload the boxcars.
 
Doug Harding
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Clark Propst via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, June 6, 2021 5:06 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Shipping Bulk Cement - not on the RR?
 
I don't know when barrels gave way to cloth sacks, but would believe it was before WWII. Paper bags came in the early 50s I believe? Cement was sold by the barrels for years after. 4 sacks to a barrel @ 94lbs a sack you can do the math for the weight of a barrel  ;  ))

Cement company logos were designed to fit on a barrel lid.

Clark Propst 



ron christensen
 

In St Joseph Mi there is a large cement storage building.
Cement is brought in by ship via Lake Michigan. Before 1970 also by rail. The rail siding is long gone.
Large trucks take it to the batch plants. This started sometime after WW2.
I could not find my pictures but here is one from Google
Ron Christensen


Edward
 
Edited

B&O rebuilt a number of tis USRA Class M-24 boxcars into cement haulers in the 1930's.
They were used in a number of on-line improvements such as grade crossing elimination work, construction of retaining walls, bridge abutments and railway viaducts in the 1930's.
Mixing for concrete work was done on site.
The M-24a class 'cement hopper/box cars' were stenciled for return to Pittsburgh when empty. 
They were still in use into the 1950's.
I built an O scale model of one, modifying an early "Chooch" kit someone gave me that had a warped floor and sides.
It is painted in 1950's B&O oxide red.
A bit of careful oven warming helped make the parts flat again.
Internal bracing I added should hopefully help these parts stay that way.

Ed Bommer


Tim O'Connor
 


Great model!

On 6/7/2021 1:10 PM, Edward wrote:
B&O rebuilt a number of tis USRA Class M-24 boxcars into cement haulers in the 1930's.
They were used in a number of on-line improvements such as grade crossing elimination work, construction of retaining walls, bridge abutments and railway viaducts in the 1930's.
Mixing for concrete work was done on site.
The M-24a class 'cement hopper/box cars' were stenciled for return to Pittsburgh when empty. 
They were still in use into the 1950's.
I built an O scale model of one, modifying an early "Chooch" kit someone gave me that had a warped floor and sides.
It is painted in 1950's B&O oxide red.
A bit of careful oven warming helped make the parts flat again.
Internal bracing I added should hopefully help these parts stay that way.

Ed Bommer

Ed Bommer

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--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts