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Shipping Fish

Bob Chaparro
 

Shipping Fish

Where there any rules restricting refrigerator cars to fresh fish loads once they had been used to ship fresh fish?

Or did this depend on how the fist were packaged?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Ted Schnepf
 

Hi Bob,

Fresh fish to me means, live fish shipped in aeration tanks, in baggage cars for the kosher trade.

For a refrigerator load, I assume you mean processed fish.

Ted Schnepf
126 Will Scarlet,
Elgin, Ill. 60120


847=697-5353


On Friday, January 3, 2020, 02:31:19 PM CST, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:


Shipping Fish

Where there any rules restricting refrigerator cars to fresh fish loads once they had been used to ship fresh fish?

Or did this depend on how the fist were packaged?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Drew Bunn
 

"Fresh fish" are a perishable, whereas "live fish" would be considered livestock. They need to be treated differently.  

CN ran fish in overnight passenger trains between Halifax and Boston utilizing Express Reefers with high speed trucks and steam lines. 

But I think fish are rarely shipped live.

On Fri., Jan. 3, 2020, 20:21 Ted Schnepf, <railsunl@...> wrote:
Hi Bob,

Fresh fish to me means, live fish shipped in aeration tanks, in baggage cars for the kosher trade.

For a refrigerator load, I assume you mean processed fish.

Ted Schnepf
126 Will Scarlet,
Elgin, Ill. 60120


847=697-5353


On Friday, January 3, 2020, 02:31:19 PM CST, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:


Shipping Fish

Where there any rules restricting refrigerator cars to fresh fish loads once they had been used to ship fresh fish?

Or did this depend on how the fist were packaged?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Bob Chaparro
 

OK, let me better define what I am asking about. I am asking about dead fish, either on ice or frozen.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA

np328
 

   I have written about this before.  
      While researching for refrigerator cars of the NP, I found a letter admonished a subordinate on his use of a class of refrigerator cars stating that - refrigerator cars, once used for fish, are unfit for anything other commodity. Fish service is where refrigerator cars go to die. I could try to dig it out if you really wanted to see it. Could take a bit of time as CCB is on the doorstep. This letter or telegram was prior to flash freezing of fish, so I think it would be fish on ice. (1920s - 1930s +/-)  
      I never found anything later in the 50's (in paperwork) that specified certain classes of cars to fish service. This in spite of there were numerous fish processing plants in WA state that shipped NP.  I have often wondered about the steel reefers. Would 40 tons of frozen fish sticks contaminate them? 
      I am mildly allergic to eating fish, so I tend to stay clear of fish that has been processed as an edible, (even in the frozen food section).                  Jim Dick - St. Paul 

Brian Termunde
 

I'd be interested in knowing about this, but in particular, oysters.

The area I model was (and still is) known for it's oysters. Willapa Harbor, Wash.

TIA!

 

Take Care,

 

Brian R. Termunde

Midvale, Utah

***************



Shipping Fish
From: Bob Chaparro
Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2020 12:31:07 PST

 

Shipping Fish

Where there any rules restricting refrigerator cars to fresh fish loads once they had been used to ship fresh fish?

Or did this depend on how the fist were packaged?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

HemetCA

Doug Paasch
 

I found this tidbit on the internet about shipping frozen fish.

  https://spo.nmfs.noaa.gov/sites/default/files/legacy-pdfs/leaflet431.pdf

 

I, too, would be interested in the shipping of non-frozen dead fish in refrigerator cars.  I want to include shipments of freshly caught (dead) Salmon from Seattle fish docks on the GN using icing from the WFE ice dock at Interbay.  Did GN have any of its own reefers (ie, GN reporting mark) or did they only use WFEX/BREX/FGEX pool cars for reefer shipments of all kinds?  And for fish, were they limited to using only WFEX reefers since they owned them by subsidiary?  That is, were they prohibited from using BREX or FGEX reefers for fish?

 

Thanks,

    Doug Paasch

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, January 3, 2020 10:44 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Shipping Fish

 

OK, let me better define what I am asking about. I am asking about dead fish, either on ice or frozen.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA

Bob Chaparro
 

And I did find this information.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
++++

The text below is from Refrigerating World, Volume 54, Issue 2 (September 1919).

TRANSPORTATION OF FISH

The speed at which fish decay is not so striking as the length of time that fish will keep under proper conditions. according to the Food Research Laboratory of the Bureau of Chemistry, United States Department of Agriculture. Investigations in the handling of fresh fish—from the catch to the consumer—which have been underway for several years, have shown that when refrigerator cars are properly iced and the fish are properly packed, they can be transported even in midsummer for distances requiring five days of travel, and they will reach the market in excellent condition for eating. In fact, fish so shipped will be much "fresher" at the markets than fish shipped without refrigeration in fast express cars for 24 hours or less.

For successful shipping of fish by freight in refrigerator cars, the investigators outline the following instructions:

Keep Fish Packages Off Floor

Select a refrigerator car that has doors and hatches so tight that not a ray of light can enter. If the car is not provided with a rack in the floor, build one, placing 2 by 4 stringers lengthwise of the floor and nailing crosswise slats —1 by 3 inches—about 11/; inches apart. No car of fresh fish should be shipped without a rack on the floor.

With the car prepared, the bunkers should be filled with ice at least 12 hours before loading. The pieces of ice should not be larger than a man’s fist. Just before the car is loaded the ice in the bunkers should be replenished, and on top of the ice should be placed coarse gray rock salt in the proportion of 5 percent of the ice. Most refrigerating cars will require from 3,500 to 5,000 pounds of ice in each bunker. If the capacity of the bunkers is not marked, it can be determined by counting the number of cakes used, in the case of artificial ice, or by rough weighing, in the case of natural ice. The amount of salt required ordinarily will vary between 170 and 250 pounds to each bunker.

Only Package Ice in Cars

Fish to be placed in the car must be in boxes or barrels, plentifully supplied with fine ice. They should be hurried into the car, that the doors may not be kept open any longer than necessary. As soon as the load is stowed, the doors should be closed and sealed, and the haul should begin as promptly as possible. No ice except that in the packages investigators say, to cover a load of fish with fine ice, or to place heavy ice “headers” on the barrels.

The same principle can be used with much success for the shipment of less-than-carload lots, provided the car is chilled when the trip is begun, and the trainmen close the doors promptly after each change in the lading.

Hauling fish in refrigerator cars under the conditions outlined does not harm the car by wetting the lining with fishy water to any greater extent than does ice-packed poultry or iced vegetables, and railroad officials will find value in knowledge of this fact, declare the investigators. They see no reason why fish so handled should not be loaded into refrigerator cars which, after unloading and airing, may go into other refrigerator service. Damage to refrigerator cars in fish traffic and much fish deterioration has been due to heavy meltage of ice in the fish packages, because the-car was not cold enough at the beginning to reduce the meltage. This difficulty can be overcome by salting the ice in the bunkers. During the haul, the bunkers in summer time must be iced and salted every 24 hours.

 

Doug Paasch
 

Thanks Bob.  In reading this, I couldn’t make sense of one sentence so after some searching online, I found the same article.  Looks like a line was skipped in retyping it.  The sentence “No ice except that in the packages investigators say, to cover a load of fish with fine ice, or to place heavy ice “headers” on the barrels.”

 

should read:

 

No ice except that in the packages should be placed inside the car.  It is a great mistake, investigators say, to cover a load of fish with fine ice, or to place heavy ice “headers” on the barrels.

 

Doug Paasch

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, January 4, 2020 10:05 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Shipping Fish

 

And I did find this information.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
++++

The text below is from Refrigerating World, Volume 54, Issue 2 (September 1919).

TRANSPORTATION OF FISH

The speed at which fish decay is not so striking as the length of time that fish will keep under proper conditions. according to the Food Research Laboratory of the Bureau of Chemistry, United States Department of Agriculture. Investigations in the handling of fresh fish—from the catch to the consumer—which have been underway for several years, have shown that when refrigerator cars are properly iced and the fish are properly packed, they can be transported even in midsummer for distances requiring five days of travel, and they will reach the market in excellent condition for eating. In fact, fish so shipped will be much "fresher" at the markets than fish shipped without refrigeration in fast express cars for 24 hours or less.

For successful shipping of fish by freight in refrigerator cars, the investigators outline the following instructions:

Keep Fish Packages Off Floor

Select a refrigerator car that has doors and hatches so tight that not a ray of light can enter. If the car is not provided with a rack in the floor, build one, placing 2 by 4 stringers lengthwise of the floor and nailing crosswise slats —1 by 3 inches—about 11/; inches apart. No car of fresh fish should be shipped without a rack on the floor.

With the car prepared, the bunkers should be filled with ice at least 12 hours before loading. The pieces of ice should not be larger than a man’s fist. Just before the car is loaded the ice in the bunkers should be replenished, and on top of the ice should be placed coarse gray rock salt in the proportion of 5 percent of the ice. Most refrigerating cars will require from 3,500 to 5,000 pounds of ice in each bunker. If the capacity of the bunkers is not marked, it can be determined by counting the number of cakes used, in the case of artificial ice, or by rough weighing, in the case of natural ice. The amount of salt required ordinarily will vary between 170 and 250 pounds to each bunker.

Only Package Ice in Cars

Fish to be placed in the car must be in boxes or barrels, plentifully supplied with fine ice. They should be hurried into the car, that the doors may not be kept open any longer than necessary. As soon as the load is stowed, the doors should be closed and sealed, and the haul should begin as promptly as possible. No ice except that in the packages investigators say, to cover a load of fish with fine ice, or to place heavy ice “headers” on the barrels.

The same principle can be used with much success for the shipment of less-than-carload lots, provided the car is chilled when the trip is begun, and the trainmen close the doors promptly after each change in the lading.

Hauling fish in refrigerator cars under the conditions outlined does not harm the car by wetting the lining with fishy water to any greater extent than does ice-packed poultry or iced vegetables, and railroad officials will find value in knowledge of this fact, declare the investigators. They see no reason why fish so handled should not be loaded into refrigerator cars which, after unloading and airing, may go into other refrigerator service. Damage to refrigerator cars in fish traffic and much fish deterioration has been due to heavy meltage of ice in the fish packages, because the-car was not cold enough at the beginning to reduce the meltage. This difficulty can be overcome by salting the ice in the bunkers. During the haul, the bunkers in summer time must be iced and salted every 24 hours.

 

Dave Parker
 

If anybody is interested, here is a scan of the original article that includes the page number.

--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA