Single-sheathed box cars


Mark
 

Excellent points, Gene.
 
Lets hope something new comes out of this.
 
Sincerely, Mark Morgan

--- On Tue, 2/24/09, Gene Green <bierglaeser@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Gene Green <bierglaeser@yahoo.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Single-sheathed box cars
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 10:59 AM






We have the Tichy versions of the USRA single-sheathed box cars and the
Intermountain war-emergency box car is coming. Putting aside the
highly detail resin kits from Westerfield, F&C, Sunshine, et. al. what
else is there? I can't think of anything.

I know that in the past there have been single-sheathed box cars from a
number of manufacturers - Varney, Ulrich, Roundhouse - but those cars
don't live up to today's expections in either level of detail or
fidelity to prototype.

As my freight car fleet develops I have the general impression that my
box car mix has too few single-sheathed cars. This is just a
subjective impression unrelated to any numbers, percentages or the
Landmesser hot box list.

Will the wonderful RP CYC #18 result in any plastic, injection-molded
box car models?

Gene Green



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Tim O'Connor
 

I know that in the past there have been single-sheathed box cars from a
number of manufacturers - Varney, Ulrich, Roundhouse - but those cars
don't live up to today's expections in either level of detail or
fidelity to prototype.
Gene

Several of the Model Die Casting/Roundhouse 50 foot
single sheathed cars are completely accurate, albeit
with cast-on details -- owners MP, T&P, WP, and many
others. Richard Hendrickson wrote a fine article in
Railmodel Journal, July 1996, with lots of photos.

And don't forget Accurail's wonderful Illinois Central
single sheathed box car. I picked up a decorated model
from 5th Avenue Car Shops that is 100% accurate.

Or the Proto 2000 Mather box car (which represents the
lower height version of the Mather car).

Avoid the Walthers 50 foot SS box car. One way ticket
to Foobie-ville.

Or you could pay me wads of money to custom build resin
single sheathed box cars for you. :-)

Tim O'


As my freight car fleet develops I have the general impression that my
box car mix has too few single-sheathed cars. This is just a
subjective impression unrelated to any numbers, percentages or the
Landmesser hot box list.
Will the wonderful RP CYC #18 result in any plastic, injection-molded
box car models?
Gene Green


Michael Aufderheide
 

Gene,
 
Another car is the Life Like of Canada CP dominion boxcar.  I don't know how available these are.
 
Regards,
 
Mike Aufderheide

--- On Tue, 2/24/09, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net> wrote:

From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Single-sheathed box cars
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 10:30 AM







I know that in the past there have been single-sheathed box cars from a
number of manufacturers - Varney, Ulrich, Roundhouse - but those cars
don't live up to today's expections in either level of detail or
fidelity to prototype.
Gene

Several of the Model Die Casting/Roundhouse 50 foot
single sheathed cars are completely accurate, albeit
with cast-on details -- owners MP, T&P, WP, and many
others. Richard Hendrickson wrote a fine article in
Railmodel Journal, July 1996, with lots of photos.

And don't forget Accurail's wonderful Illinois Central
single sheathed box car. I picked up a decorated model
from 5th Avenue Car Shops that is 100% accurate.

Or the Proto 2000 Mather box car (which represents the
lower height version of the Mather car).

Avoid the Walthers 50 foot SS box car. One way ticket
to Foobie-ville.

Or you could pay me wads of money to custom build resin
single sheathed box cars for you. :-)

Tim O'

As my freight car fleet develops I have the general impression that my
box car mix has too few single-sheathed cars. This is just a
subjective impression unrelated to any numbers, percentages or the
Landmesser hot box list.
Will the wonderful RP CYC #18 result in any plastic, injection-molded
box car models?
Gene Green


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


sparachuk <sparachuk@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
Gene

Several of the Model Die Casting/Roundhouse 50 foot
single sheathed cars are completely accurate, albeit
with cast-on details -- owners MP, T&P, WP, and many
others. Richard Hendrickson wrote a fine article in
Railmodel Journal, July 1996, with lots of photos.

And don't forget Accurail's wonderful Illinois Central
single sheathed box car. I picked up a decorated model
from 5th Avenue Car Shops that is 100% accurate.

Or the Proto 2000 Mather box car (which represents the
lower height version of the Mather car).

Avoid the Walthers 50 foot SS box car. One way ticket
to Foobie-ville.

Or you could pay me wads of money to custom build resin
single sheathed box cars for you. :-)

Tim O'


As my freight car fleet develops I have the general impression that my
box car mix has too few single-sheathed cars. This is just a
subjective impression unrelated to any numbers, percentages or the
Landmesser hot box list.
Will the wonderful RP CYC #18 result in any plastic, injection-molded
box car models?
Gene Green
Tim and Gene: Good point on the Accurail Tim and don't forget the
other Accurail SS boxcars too. The nine panel car has wood ends or
Murphy ends, wood doors or steel and there's also the seven panel cars
with 3-3-3 Dreadnaught ends or wooden ends.

Stephan Parachuk
Toronto


William Bryk <wmbryk@...>
 

In addition, there is the True Line Trains 36' Fowler boxcar which I
understand is due to be released fairly soon, although I am unable to find
much information on the TLT website.

William Bryk

On 2/24/09, sparachuk <sparachuk@hotmail.com> wrote:

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com <STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>, Tim O'Connor
<timboconnor@...> wrote:
Gene

Several of the Model Die Casting/Roundhouse 50 foot
single sheathed cars are completely accurate, albeit
with cast-on details -- owners MP, T&P, WP, and many
others. Richard Hendrickson wrote a fine article in
Railmodel Journal, July 1996, with lots of photos.

And don't forget Accurail's wonderful Illinois Central
single sheathed box car. I picked up a decorated model
from 5th Avenue Car Shops that is 100% accurate.

Or the Proto 2000 Mather box car (which represents the
lower height version of the Mather car).

Avoid the Walthers 50 foot SS box car. One way ticket
to Foobie-ville.

Or you could pay me wads of money to custom build resin
single sheathed box cars for you. :-)

Tim O'


As my freight car fleet develops I have the general impression that my
box car mix has too few single-sheathed cars. This is just a
subjective impression unrelated to any numbers, percentages or the
Landmesser hot box list.
Will the wonderful RP CYC #18 result in any plastic, injection-molded
box car models?
Gene Green
Tim and Gene: Good point on the Accurail Tim and don't forget the
other Accurail SS boxcars too. The nine panel car has wood ends or
Murphy ends, wood doors or steel and there's also the seven panel cars
with 3-3-3 Dreadnaught ends or wooden ends.

Stephan Parachuk
Toronto



William Bryk <wmbryk@...>
 

In addition, there is the True Line Trains 36' Fowler boxcar which I
understand is due to be released fairly soon, although I am unable to find
much information on the TLT website.

William Bryk

On 2/24/09, sparachuk <sparachuk@hotmail.com> wrote:

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com <STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>, Tim O'Connor
<timboconnor@...> wrote:
Gene

Several of the Model Die Casting/Roundhouse 50 foot
single sheathed cars are completely accurate, albeit
with cast-on details -- owners MP, T&P, WP, and many
others. Richard Hendrickson wrote a fine article in
Railmodel Journal, July 1996, with lots of photos.

And don't forget Accurail's wonderful Illinois Central
single sheathed box car. I picked up a decorated model
from 5th Avenue Car Shops that is 100% accurate.

Or the Proto 2000 Mather box car (which represents the
lower height version of the Mather car).

Avoid the Walthers 50 foot SS box car. One way ticket
to Foobie-ville.

Or you could pay me wads of money to custom build resin
single sheathed box cars for you. :-)

Tim O'


As my freight car fleet develops I have the general impression that my
box car mix has too few single-sheathed cars. This is just a
subjective impression unrelated to any numbers, percentages or the
Landmesser hot box list.
Will the wonderful RP CYC #18 result in any plastic, injection-molded
box car models?
Gene Green
Tim and Gene: Good point on the Accurail Tim and don't forget the
other Accurail SS boxcars too. The nine panel car has wood ends or
Murphy ends, wood doors or steel and there's also the seven panel cars
with 3-3-3 Dreadnaught ends or wooden ends.

Stephan Parachuk
Toronto



golden1014
 

Hey Gene,

Don't forget Al Westerfield, big guy. Lot's of offerings there.

John

John Golden
Bloomington, IN


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Green" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:

We have the Tichy versions of the USRA single-sheathed box cars and
the
Intermountain war-emergency box car is coming. Putting aside the
highly detail resin kits from Westerfield, F&C, Sunshine, et. al.
what
else is there? I can't think of anything.

I know that in the past there have been single-sheathed box cars
from a
number of manufacturers - Varney, Ulrich, Roundhouse - but those
cars
don't live up to today's expections in either level of detail or
fidelity to prototype.

As my freight car fleet develops I have the general impression that
my
box car mix has too few single-sheathed cars. This is just a
subjective impression unrelated to any numbers, percentages or the
Landmesser hot box list.

Will the wonderful RP CYC #18 result in any plastic, injection-
molded
box car models?

Gene Green


Marty McGuirk
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Mark Morgan <bnonut@...> wrote:

Excellent points, Gene.
 
Lets hope something new comes out of this.
 
Sincerely, Mark Morgan
 
Well, I do remember what other file folders were in the cabinet at
Intermountain - essentially my "collection of possible candidates."
It's been interesting to see some come to fruition. . . . so hope, as
they say, springs eternal.

Marty McGuirk


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

John Golden wrote:
Hey Gene,
Don't forget Al Westerfield, big guy. Lot's of offerings there.
apparently having failed to notice what Gene actually said:

Putting aside the highly detail resin kits from Westerfield, F&C, Sunshine, et. al. what
else is there?
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Ray Breyer
 

Hi Tim,

Tim O'Connor wrote:
And don't forget Accurail's wonderful Illinois Central
single sheathed box car. I picked up a decorated model
from 5th Avenue Car Shops that is 100% accurate.
Make that about 70% accurate Tim. The ends are wrong and the fishbelly underframe is essentially 100% wrong for the IC cars. Still, if you need more than one for your IC roster (like I do!) it's a whole lot more affordable and quick than the Sunshine version of the same car.


Avoid the Walthers 50 foot SS box car. One way ticket to Foobie-ville.
Again, unless you need IC cars. Then the Walthers model, with minimal kitbashing, becomes the only accurate IC 50' SS boxcar ever produced.
 
Just a couple of tips,
Ray Breyer


Ray Breyer
 

Hi Tim,

Tim O'Connor wrote:
And don't forget Accurail's wonderful Illinois Central
single sheathed box car. I picked up a decorated model
from 5th Avenue Car Shops that is 100% accurate.
Make that about 70% accurate Tim. The ends are wrong and the fishbelly underframe is essentially 100% wrong for the IC cars. Still, if you need more than one for your IC roster (like I do!) it's a whole lot more affordable and quick than the Sunshine version of the same car.


Avoid the Walthers 50 foot SS box car. One way ticket to Foobie-ville.
Again, unless you need IC cars. Then the Walthers model, with minimal kitbashing, becomes the only accurate IC 50' SS boxcar ever produced.
 
Just a couple of tips,
Ray Breyer


Tim O'Connor
 

Ray Breyer wrote

Make that about 70% accurate Tim. The ends are wrong and the
fishbelly underframe is essentially 100% wrong for the IC cars.
Still, if you need more than one for your IC roster (like I do!)
it's a whole lot more affordable and quick than the Sunshine
version of the same car.
Why is the uf wrong? My shot of IC 16719 shows a fishbelly.
And yes, the proto ends are 3/5 while the model is 4/4 but...
perhaps Dennis followed an atypical prototype car? I mean why
would he deliberately make it incorrectly?

Avoid the Walthers 50 foot SS box car.
Again, unless you need IC cars.
I'd love to see a photo of that IC 50' car.

Tim O'Connor


Tim O'Connor
 

ya know what they say: If you have to ask...

Or you could pay me wads of money to custom build resin
single sheathed box cars for you. :-)
Please define "wad." (VBG)
Gene Green


Glen Mills <mills.glen@...>
 

Hello,

Can we have a catalogue No. for the Accurail IC single sheathed box car,
please.

Regards,

Glen Mills

Re: Single-sheathed box cars
Posted by: "Tim O'Connor" timboconnor@comcast.net cf5250
Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:30 am (PST)

Gene



And don't forget Accurail's wonderful Illinois Central
single sheathed box car. I picked up a decorated model
from 5th Avenue Car Shops that is 100% accurate.



Tim O'


Jeffrey White
 

The 7100 series is the closest to the IC cars.

Jeff White

Glen Mills wrote:


Hello,

Can we have a catalogue No. for the Accurail IC single sheathed box car,
please.

Regards,

Glen Mills

Re: Single-sheathed box cars
Posted by: "Tim O'Connor" timboconnor@comcast.net <mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net> cf5250
Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:30 am (PST)

Gene

And don't forget Accurail's wonderful Illinois Central
single sheathed box car. I picked up a decorated model
from 5th Avenue Car Shops that is 100% accurate.

Tim O'



Ray Breyer
 

Right. Accurail has a part number for the IC cars (7116) but they haven't been made yet, most likely because 5th Avenue is still sitting on a bunch of them.
http://www.5thavenuecarshops.com/
5th Ave doesn't use "part numbers", so you'll just have to mail 'em an order form and see what happens!
 
Ray Breyer

--- On Tue, 2/24/09, Jeffrey White <jrwhite@midwest.net> wrote:

From: Jeffrey White <jrwhite@midwest.net>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Single-sheathed box cars
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 5:28 PM

The 7100 series is the closest to the IC cars.

Jeff White

Glen Mills wrote:

Hello,

Can we have a catalogue No. for the Accurail IC single sheathed box car,
please.

Regards,

Glen Mills

Re: Single-sheathed box cars
Posted by: "Tim O'Connor" timboconnor@comcast.net
<mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net> cf5250
Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:30 am (PST)

Gene

And don't forget Accurail's wonderful Illinois Central
single sheathed box car. I picked up a decorated model
from 5th Avenue Car Shops that is 100% accurate.

Tim O'

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Ray Breyer
 

Gene Green wrote:
And don't forget Accurail's wonderful Illinois Central
single sheathed box car. I picked up a decorated model
from 5th Avenue Car Shops that is 100% accurate.
Can you be more specific?  Should I be looking for Accurail's 4100
series, 4300, 4500, 7000 or 7100 series, all of which appear to be
single-sheathed.  I contact Jim Singer.
Hi Gene,
 
All of the Accurail SS cars are a prototype of "something", or at least can be made into an "85% good" stand in (which is good enough for most of us!). It's all a matter of what you can find that's close. For example, I use the Accurail 7100s for both IC and Milwaukee SS cars. They're closest to IC, but if you ignore the lack of a lumber door on the A end and change the underframe, they're a pretty good stand-in that costs 1/4 of a Sunshine car (which is important when you've got a big family and a small hobby budget!).
 
IIRC, there was an email on this list about six months ago that listed all of the closest prototypes to Accurail models. You might want to find that as a starting point.
 
Regards,
 
Ray Breyer


Ray Breyer
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Ray Breyer wrote
Make that about 70% accurate Tim. The ends are wrong and the
fishbelly underframe is essentially 100% wrong for the IC cars.
Still, if you need more than one for your IC roster (like I do!)
it's a whole lot more affordable and quick than the Sunshine
version of the same car.
Why is the uf wrong? My shot of IC 16719 shows a fishbelly.
And yes, the proto ends are 3/5 while the model is 4/4 but...
perhaps Dennis followed an atypical prototype car? I mean why
would he deliberately make it incorrectly?
I'm not going to put words in Dennis' mouth, but I don't think it was a malicious error; he probably used as much existing tooling as possible to come up with a six panel SS car that was as close to a prototype as he could find.
 
As for the underframe, I've got that same photo: look at the crossmembers; they're virtually nonexistent on the Accurail model. Ant to be completely prototypical you'll have to add the braces at the top and bottom corners of the sides. Please note that I'm NOT picking on these cars; I love 'em and plan on adding many more to my roster. But we ARE talking proto vs. a specific model here!
 

Avoid the Walthers 50 foot SS box car.
Again, unless you need IC cars.
I'd love to see a photo of that IC 50' car.
I'll have to get back to you on that one. Ted Richardson clued me into the match, and I have to dig up that email. IIRC it wasn't a large group of cars (150 maybe) but it's as close as any model gets.
 
Chet French just told me that the ONLY truly accurate IC SS box ever made is the Sunshine car; the F&C car, the next closest and representative of the single largest group of late steam era IC SS cars, is too narrow by 6 or 8 inches. Great...
 
Regards,
 
Ray Breyer


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 24, 2009, at 7:59 AM, Gene Green wrote:
We have the Tichy versions of the USRA single-sheathed box cars and
the
Intermountain war-emergency box car is coming. Putting aside the
highly detail resin kits from Westerfield, F&C, Sunshine, et. al. what
else is there? I can't think of anything.






[snip]
As my freight car fleet develops I have the general impression that my
box car mix has too few single-sheathed cars. This is just a
subjective impression unrelated to any numbers, percentages or the
Landmesser hot box list.






Others have pointed out that there are a few more accurate single
sheathed box car models in HO scale than Gene suggests. However, his
point remains true that, aside from resin kits, there aren't enough
to accurately represent the typical mix of box cars in a steam era
freight car fleet. One reason, of course, is that, apart from the
USRA box cars, there was so little standardization of design in the
teens and '20s. Even the ARA "standard" single sheathed box car was
built with so many different heights, ends, roofs, underframes, etc.
that kit/RTR manufacturers can't find a single version which can be
accurately modeled for more than one or two prototype railroads.
It's not that the manufacturers have overlooked all those single
sheathed prototypes but that they haven't been able to figure out how
to develop models that will sell in large enough numbers to cover
their tooling costs, never mind turning a modest profit. While those
of us who have the time and skills to build resin kits now have a lot
of options, there's no solution in sight for modelers who don't.


Richard Hendrickson


Jeffrey White
 

They could include different ends and roofs in the kit. Branchline does this now in their undecorated Blueprint kits. You might even be able to solve the height problem with the different roofs.

I don't know what the tooling would cost, but I think a SS kit that gave you the option of building one of 3 or 4 different prototypes would sell at least as well as the undecorated Branchline Kits. Perhaps the market which seems to be RTR oriented wouldn't support it, but I think it could be done.

Jeff White

Richard Hendrickson wrote:


Others have pointed out that there are a few more accurate single
sheathed box car models in HO scale than Gene suggests. However, his
point remains true that, aside from resin kits, there aren't enough
to accurately represent the typical mix of box cars in a steam era
freight car fleet. One reason, of course, is that, apart from the
USRA box cars, there was so little standardization of design in the
teens and '20s. Even the ARA "standard" single sheathed box car was
built with so many different heights, ends, roofs, underframes, etc.
that kit/RTR manufacturers can't find a single version which can be
accurately modeled for more than one or two prototype railroads.
It's not that the manufacturers have overlooked all those single
sheathed prototypes but that they haven't been able to figure out how
to develop models that will sell in large enough numbers to cover
their tooling costs, never mind turning a modest profit. While those
of us who have the time and skills to build resin kits now have a lot
of options, there's no solution in sight for modelers who don't.

Richard Hendrickson