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Southern LC "Boxcar" With Vent?

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Good friends,

While digitizing my old negatives, I ran across this photo of Southern 50' PS-1 34242 shot in Charlottesville circa 1987. If I read George Elwood's Fallen Flags web site correctly this is not a boxcar at all, but a covered hopper (type LC, note the roof hatches). Photos on Elwood's site show these cars were often covered in some sort of white powder, which I suspect is kaolin.

According to Ed Hawkins' PS-1 article in RMJ 1995, there were no original Southern PS-1s with this number, so it must be a conversion / renumbering. These are not listed my October 1958 ORER. Can anyone comment on whether these cars were converted during our period of interest (as in 1961 or before)?

Also of interest is what appears to be a small end vent (see the partial view). I see this on other converted PS-1s on the Fallen Flags site. Is this indeed a vent, and to what purpose? 

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆

Rich C
 

Garth, Those were converted in the 60s for Kaolin clay service. Most of these cars had vents on the ends right below the roof.

There were two series' of these particular cars 34000-34124 and 34200-34299. Additionally there were exterior post box cars in the 34300-34424.

I did notice some smaller side vents on some of these cars, nothing was consistent except the cars with the end vents.

Many photos here:



On Friday, February 14, 2020, 12:48:21 PM CST, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:


Good friends,

While digitizing my old negatives, I ran across this photo of Southern 50' PS-1 34242 shot in Charlottesville circa 1987. If I read George Elwood's Fallen Flags web site correctly this is not a boxcar at all, but a covered hopper (type LC, note the roof hatches). Photos on Elwood's site show these cars were often covered in some sort of white powder, which I suspect is kaolin.

According to Ed Hawkins' PS-1 article in RMJ 1995, there were no original Southern PS-1s with this number, so it must be a conversion / renumbering. These are not listed my October 1958 ORER. Can anyone comment on whether these cars were converted during our period of interest (as in 1961 or before)?

Also of interest is what appears to be a small end vent (see the partial view). I see this on other converted PS-1s on the Fallen Flags site. Is this indeed a vent, and to what purpose? 

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Rich,

Thanks for settling the conversion date as past our time frame, and confirming my notion about kaolin. I also photographed a different car here in Charlottesville around the same time, Southern 55412. It has what appears to be an 8' main door and a 6' plug auxiliary door, and again four hatches, but no vent. The ends are Improved Dreadnaught. Since I now know these are past our time frame, I will decline sending it as an attachment.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 6:13 PM Rich C via Groups.Io <rhcdmc=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Garth, Those were converted in the 60s for Kaolin clay service. Most of these cars had vents on the ends right below the roof.

There were two series' of these particular cars 34000-34124 and 34200-34299. Additionally there were exterior post box cars in the 34300-34424.

I did notice some smaller side vents on some of these cars, nothing was consistent except the cars with the end vents.

Many photos here:



On Friday, February 14, 2020, 12:48:21 PM CST, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:


Good friends,

While digitizing my old negatives, I ran across this photo of Southern 50' PS-1 34242 shot in Charlottesville circa 1987. If I read George Elwood's Fallen Flags web site correctly this is not a boxcar at all, but a covered hopper (type LC, note the roof hatches). Photos on Elwood's site show these cars were often covered in some sort of white powder, which I suspect is kaolin.

According to Ed Hawkins' PS-1 article in RMJ 1995, there were no original Southern PS-1s with this number, so it must be a conversion / renumbering. These are not listed my October 1958 ORER. Can anyone comment on whether these cars were converted during our period of interest (as in 1961 or before)?

Also of interest is what appears to be a small end vent (see the partial view). I see this on other converted PS-1s on the Fallen Flags site. Is this indeed a vent, and to what purpose? 

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆

Rich C
 

No problem, Garth. I model 3 era's in particular, mostly 1955 though

Rich Christie

On Friday, February 14, 2020, 05:24:51 PM CST, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:


Rich,

Thanks for settling the conversion date as past our time frame, and confirming my notion about kaolin. I also photographed a different car here in Charlottesville around the same time, Southern 55412. It has what appears to be an 8' main door and a 6' plug auxiliary door, and again four hatches, but no vent. The ends are Improved Dreadnaught. Since I now know these are past our time frame, I will decline sending it as an attachment.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 6:13 PM Rich C via Groups.Io <rhcdmc=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Garth, Those were converted in the 60s for Kaolin clay service. Most of these cars had vents on the ends right below the roof.

There were two series' of these particular cars 34000-34124 and 34200-34299. Additionally there were exterior post box cars in the 34300-34424.

I did notice some smaller side vents on some of these cars, nothing was consistent except the cars with the end vents.

Many photos here:



On Friday, February 14, 2020, 12:48:21 PM CST, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:


Good friends,

While digitizing my old negatives, I ran across this photo of Southern 50' PS-1 34242 shot in Charlottesville circa 1987. If I read George Elwood's Fallen Flags web site correctly this is not a boxcar at all, but a covered hopper (type LC, note the roof hatches). Photos on Elwood's site show these cars were often covered in some sort of white powder, which I suspect is kaolin.

According to Ed Hawkins' PS-1 article in RMJ 1995, there were no original Southern PS-1s with this number, so it must be a conversion / renumbering. These are not listed my October 1958 ORER. Can anyone comment on whether these cars were converted during our period of interest (as in 1961 or before)?

Also of interest is what appears to be a small end vent (see the partial view). I see this on other converted PS-1s on the Fallen Flags site. Is this indeed a vent, and to what purpose? 

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆

Ed Hawkins
 



On Feb 14, 2020, at 12:47 PM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:

While digitizing my old negatives, I ran across this photo of Southern 50' PS-1 34242 shot in Charlottesville circa 1987. If I read George Elwood's Fallen Flags web site correctly this is not a boxcar at all, but a covered hopper (type LC, note the roof hatches). Photos on Elwood's site show these cars were often covered in some sort of white powder, which I suspect is kaolin.

According to Ed Hawkins' PS-1 article in RMJ 1995, there were no original Southern PS-1s with this number, so it must be a conversion / renumbering. These are not listed my October 1958 ORER. Can anyone comment on whether these cars were converted during our period of interest (as in 1961 or before)?

Also of interest is what appears to be a small end vent (see the partial view). I see this on other converted PS-1s on the Fallen Flags site. Is this indeed a vent, and to what purpose? 

Garth,
For those interested in the end vents, attached is a one-page PDF list of 50’ PS-1 box cars confirmed to have end vents when built by Pullman-Standard from 1956 to 1960. Southern's cars had 6 vents per end while L&N’s cars had 3 vents per end. The side panels denote the number to the left & right of the door. It’s certainly possible there were other built new with end vents, as well as cars modified with vents by the railroads. 

In the Southern Railway Equipment Drawings and Photographs, Volume II, Book I, page 100 has end drawing SF-20070 showing the arrangement with 6 vents that cover 1” diameter vent holes with center lines that follow the roof line. The vent covers are .10” pressed plate of various lengths in the general shape of vertical angles covered at the top & welded to the top end sheet. It’s my understanding the vents were for air flow desired in wood pulp service.

Thanks to George (Ike) Eichelberger & the SRHA for publishing two outstanding 40’ & 50’ box/auto car books to date. 

Please advise if you know of any other new 50’ PS-1 box cars with end vents and/or if the list contains any errors.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins






D. Scott Chatfield
 

The 50-foot LCs were converted in the late '70s.  The cars converted in the late '60s were all 40-footers AFAIK.  A look in the April 1972 ORER appears to confirm this.

The former NS 50-foot LCs predate the Southern's.  Don't know if they were built for kaolin or phosphate.  I know they were used for kaolin after the Southern bought the NS.

The ORER definition of an LC is "a house car with roof hatches and side doors.  May also have end doors."

I recall looking in my 1964 ORER years ago and finding very few LCs, so they are definitely a post-1960 thing.

Scott Chatfield

Hudson Leighton
 

That is not a vent, the ACI tag has broken in tow and the top part is bent out.

-Hudson

charlie9
 

I think that was a little "awning" to keep the kaolin from washing down and covering the ACI label.   MP did similar to it's covered hoppers in lime service.
Charlie Schildt