Date
21 - 28 of 28
Tank Car Question
Really great timing for this question.
I model the C&O in 1952 and have been wondering about tank car operations. This photo shows a large amount of tank cars at the Ashland Oil refinery in Catlettsburg Ky. From my reading the posts above, could I assume that Ashland had a contract with GATX and that putting 4-6 of these on a manifest would be appropriate. Any suggestions on what model would be the best representation for these.
Tony Thompson
Tim O'Connor wrote:
Yes, but the big concern was REFINING, storage, and transportation. In the early days, Standard didn’t produce that much.
Wasn't one of the MAJOR reasons for the break up of Rockefeller's Standard Oil was his monopolization
of both the means of production and transportation ??
When was Standard Oil finally forced to break up?
1911.
Tony Thompson
So, I am looking at tank cars being switched in the early 1950's at Port Costa to service Union Oil in Martinez (SCCX), Associated/Tidewater at Avon (TWOX, AOX?) and Union Oil at Oleum (UOCX). All the cars UTLX I seem to have accumulated because it is the most common lettering scheme (witness the new Rapico cars I have pre-ordered and coming next year) will be assumed to be traveling to and from the Richmond refinery and will have to stay in the through traffic freights in the background mainline tracks of my tiny HO Port Costa Layout.
I have a couple of Walthers Proto2000 10K gallon SCCX cars but accurate TWOX cars do not seem to be available (particularly the Standard Tank Car variety)and I may have to look for more undecorated for UOCX.
Then there are the SP O-13's Athearn kitbashes that have never been finished...hung up on the handrails...
--
Ken Adams
Covid Variants may come and go but I choose to still live mostly in splendid Shelter In Place solitude
Location: About half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io
I have a couple of Walthers Proto2000 10K gallon SCCX cars but accurate TWOX cars do not seem to be available (particularly the Standard Tank Car variety)and I may have to look for more undecorated for UOCX.
Then there are the SP O-13's Athearn kitbashes that have never been finished...hung up on the handrails...
--
Ken Adams
Covid Variants may come and go but I choose to still live mostly in splendid Shelter In Place solitude
Location: About half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io
Wasn't one of the MAJOR reasons for the break up of
Rockefeller's Standard Oil was his monopolization
of both the means of production and transportation ?? When was Standard Oil finally forced to break up?
After the break up did the Union Tank Car Company even have the right to refuse to lease cars based on
them not being part of Standard Oil ?
On 10/19/2022 12:09 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:
of both the means of production and transportation ?? When was Standard Oil finally forced to break up?
After the break up did the Union Tank Car Company even have the right to refuse to lease cars based on
them not being part of Standard Oil ?
On 10/19/2022 12:09 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:
On Oct 19, 2022, at 8:35 AM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote: A friend asked me: "A basic question as I have never understood tank car operations. Would a refinery or producing oil field use tanks cars from only one fleet, such as all UTLX cars or all GATX cars. Or were cars a mix?" I didn't know so I ask here.As with so many things, the answer is, “It depends.” All the various Standard Oil operations around the country did continue to use UTLX cars as their main tank car fleet, and few other oil companies did so — until the 1950s, when UTLX began to branch out and lease to non-Standard companies. By far the biggest leasing fleet was GATX, not only in assigned leases (when the car was often decorated for the lessee) but in otherwise unmarked “pool” cars. A distant second was SHPX, same situation with leases, and a distant third behind them was NATX. Bottom line, UTLX cars would mostly carry Standard products, even after the 1950s. Then any other oil company that had leased cars, from GATX or whomever, would of course mostly use those, but if a little short of cars, would use pool cars from their lessor, or maybe even get hold of pool cars from a lessor that did not provide their main fleet. The need to move products outweighed details of tank car ownership. Tony Thompson
--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Tony Thompson
Bruce Hendrick wrote:Well, in a sense, yes, but remember to keep the exceptions rare, not just do whatever you want. The predominant pattern should be the goal.
Thanks, Tony, for this information.
The bottom line seems to be, as with most of life, if there is a need, anything goes!
Tony Thompson
tony@...
Bruce Hendrick
Thanks, Tony, for this information.
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Show quoted text
The bottom line seems to be, as with most of life, if there is a need, anything goes!
Bruce
Bruce
On Wednesday, October 19, 2022, 9:09 AM, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:
> On Oct 19, 2022, at 8:35 AM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:
>
> A friend asked me:
> "A basic question as I have never understood tank car operations. Would a refinery or producing oil field use tanks cars from only one fleet, such as all UTLX cars or all GATX cars. Or were cars a mix?"
> I didn't know so I ask here.
As with so many things, the answer is, “It depends.” All the various Standard Oil operations around the country did continue to use UTLX cars as their main tank car fleet, and few other oil companies did so — until the 1950s, when UTLX began to branch out and lease to non-Standard companies. By far the biggest leasing fleet was GATX, not only in assigned leases (when the car was often decorated for the lessee) but in otherwise unmarked “pool” cars. A distant second was SHPX, same situation with leases, and a distant third behind them was NATX.
Bottom line, UTLX cars would mostly carry Standard products, even after the 1950s. Then any other oil company that had leased cars, from GATX or whomever, would of course mostly use those, but if a little short of cars, would use pool cars from their lessor, or maybe even get hold of pool cars from a lessor that did not provide their main fleet. The need to move products outweighed details of tank car ownership.
Tony Thompson
tony@...
Tony Thompson
On Oct 19, 2022, at 8:35 AM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:As with so many things, the answer is, “It depends.” All the various Standard Oil operations around the country did continue to use UTLX cars as their main tank car fleet, and few other oil companies did so — until the 1950s, when UTLX began to branch out and lease to non-Standard companies. By far the biggest leasing fleet was GATX, not only in assigned leases (when the car was often decorated for the lessee) but in otherwise unmarked “pool” cars. A distant second was SHPX, same situation with leases, and a distant third behind them was NATX.
A friend asked me:
"A basic question as I have never understood tank car operations. Would a refinery or producing oil field use tanks cars from only one fleet, such as all UTLX cars or all GATX cars. Or were cars a mix?"
I didn't know so I ask here.
Bottom line, UTLX cars would mostly carry Standard products, even after the 1950s. Then any other oil company that had leased cars, from GATX or whomever, would of course mostly use those, but if a little short of cars, would use pool cars from their lessor, or maybe even get hold of pool cars from a lessor that did not provide their main fleet. The need to move products outweighed details of tank car ownership.
Tony Thompson
tony@...