Topics

Tank heads on depressed center flat on EJE


Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Folks;

 

Does this flat car look like the PRR F29, also attached? (Granted, different trucks; the second order of F29 got Commonwealths).

 

http://www.ejearchive.com/index.php?/albums/official-loads/content/co-loads-331/lightbox/

 

Do those sheets look like tank or boiler heads?  Interesting loading technique!

 

Elden Gatwood


Andy Cich
 

The linked photo sure does look like an F29. The sill steps, grab irons, poling pockets, and polling pocket rivets all match up.

 

About the only difference between the attached photo and the linked photo is the cut lever. Carmer on the attached photo and bottom operated on the linked photo.

 

 

Andy Cich

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 5:13 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tank heads on depressed center flat on EJE

 

Folks;

 

Does this flat car look like the PRR F29, also attached? (Granted, different trucks; the second order of F29 got Commonwealths).

 

http://www.ejearchive.com/index.php?/albums/official-loads/content/co-loads-331/lightbox/

 

Do those sheets look like tank or boiler heads?  Interesting loading technique!

 

Elden Gatwood


 

The side frames appear different. The attached photo shows a singular upper frame, while the lightbox appears to have a more flexible, almost “Buckeye”, appearance. At least to my eye.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Andy Cich <ajc5150@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Monday, December 21, 2020 at 7:51 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>, <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tank heads on depressed center flat on EJE

 

The linked photo sure does look like an F29. The sill steps, grab irons, poling pockets, and polling pocket rivets all match up.

 

About the only difference between the attached photo and the linked photo is the cut lever. Carmer on the attached photo and bottom operated on the linked photo.

 

 

Andy Cich

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 5:13 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tank heads on depressed center flat on EJE

 

Folks;

 

Does this flat car look like the PRR F29, also attached? (Granted, different trucks; the second order of F29 got Commonwealths).

 

http://www.ejearchive.com/index.php?/albums/official-loads/content/co-loads-331/lightbox/

 

Do those sheets look like tank or boiler heads?  Interesting loading technique!

 

Elden Gatwood


 

This is what I’m talking about…

Attached photo side frame:

 

Lightbox side frame:

 

To my eye, there is a second hump for axles 2&3

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Andy Cich <ajc5150@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Monday, December 21, 2020 at 7:51 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>, <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tank heads on depressed center flat on EJE

 

The linked photo sure does look like an F29. The sill steps, grab irons, poling pockets, and polling pocket rivets all match up.

 

About the only difference between the attached photo and the linked photo is the cut lever. Carmer on the attached photo and bottom operated on the linked photo.

 

 

Andy Cich

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 5:13 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tank heads on depressed center flat on EJE

 

Folks;

 

Does this flat car look like the PRR F29, also attached? (Granted, different trucks; the second order of F29 got Commonwealths).

 

http://www.ejearchive.com/index.php?/albums/official-loads/content/co-loads-331/lightbox/

 

Do those sheets look like tank or boiler heads?  Interesting loading technique!

 

Elden Gatwood


Kenneth Montero
 

Compare with Funaro & Carmerlengo T-2 Heavy Duty Pennsylvania Freight PRR 3F-F1 KIESEL 6-Wheel TRUCKS from ebay site:
 
I did not find it as a separate on the F&C current website, but appears to be a part in kit no 8171, PRR F29 Depressed Center Flatcar ONE PIECE BODY with Decals and 3F-F1 Kissel Trucks Less Wheels.
 
Ken Montero

On 12/21/2020 9:15 PM BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...> wrote:
 
 

This is what I’m talking about…

Attached photo side frame:

 

Lightbox side frame:

 

To my eye, there is a second hump for axles 2&3

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Andy Cich <ajc5150@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Monday, December 21, 2020 at 7:51 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>, <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tank heads on depressed center flat on EJE

 

The linked photo sure does look like an F29. The sill steps, grab irons, poling pockets, and polling pocket rivets all match up.

 

About the only difference between the attached photo and the linked photo is the cut lever. Carmer on the attached photo and bottom operated on the linked photo.

 

 

Andy Cich

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 5:13 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tank heads on depressed center flat on EJE

 

Folks;

 

Does this flat car look like the PRR F29, also attached? (Granted, different trucks; the second order of F29 got Commonwealths).

 

http://www.ejearchive.com/index.php?/albums/official-loads/content/co-loads-331/lightbox/

 

Do those sheets look like tank or boiler heads?  Interesting loading technique!

 

Elden Gatwood

 


Tim O'Connor
 


How would you go about cutting perfect circles from sheet styrene to model
that load? I'm thinking .020 sheet looks about right for those.




On 12/21/2020 8:51 PM, Andy Cich wrote:

The linked photo sure does look like an F29. The sill steps, grab irons, poling pockets, and polling pocket rivets all match up.

 

About the only difference between the attached photo and the linked photo is the cut lever. Carmer on the attached photo and bottom operated on the linked photo.

 

 

Andy Cich

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 5:13 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tank heads on depressed center flat on EJE

 

Folks;

 

Does this flat car look like the PRR F29, also attached? (Granted, different trucks; the second order of F29 got Commonwealths).

 

http://www.ejearchive.com/index.php?/albums/official-loads/content/co-loads-331/lightbox/

 

Do those sheets look like tank or boiler heads?  Interesting loading technique!

 

Elden Gatwood



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Tim O'Connor
 


Perhaps but the F29 had rivets on the sides and especially those triangle deck supports, both of which can be seen in the photo.
Do you know of other depressed center flat cars with the deck supports?


On 12/21/2020 9:10 PM, BRIAN PAUL EHNI wrote:

The side frames appear different. The attached photo shows a singular upper frame, while the lightbox appears to have a more flexible, almost “Buckeye”, appearance. At least to my eye.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Andy Cich <ajc5150@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Monday, December 21, 2020 at 7:51 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>, <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tank heads on depressed center flat on EJE

 

The linked photo sure does look like an F29. The sill steps, grab irons, poling pockets, and polling pocket rivets all match up.

 

About the only difference between the attached photo and the linked photo is the cut lever. Carmer on the attached photo and bottom operated on the linked photo.

 

 

Andy Cich

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 5:13 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tank heads on depressed center flat on EJE

 

Folks;

 

Does this flat car look like the PRR F29, also attached? (Granted, different trucks; the second order of F29 got Commonwealths).

 

http://www.ejearchive.com/index.php?/albums/official-loads/content/co-loads-331/lightbox/

 

Do those sheets look like tank or boiler heads?  Interesting loading technique!

 

Elden Gatwood



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


O Fenton Wells
 

In the old MR series by Alan Aramitage (sp?)
 He cut circles in plastic with a compass and a sharpened pointer to scribe the circle then snap it. I’ve done a few that way and after cleaning up with a file or sanding stick look pretty good
Fenton 

On Dec 22, 2020, at 9:55 AM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



Perhaps but the F29 had rivets on the sides and especially those triangle deck supports, both of which can be seen in the photo.
Do you know of other depressed center flat cars with the deck supports?


On 12/21/2020 9:10 PM, BRIAN PAUL EHNI wrote:

The side frames appear different. The attached photo shows a singular upper frame, while the lightbox appears to have a more flexible, almost “Buckeye”, appearance. At least to my eye.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Andy Cich <ajc5150@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Monday, December 21, 2020 at 7:51 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>, <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tank heads on depressed center flat on EJE

 

The linked photo sure does look like an F29. The sill steps, grab irons, poling pockets, and polling pocket rivets all match up.

 

About the only difference between the attached photo and the linked photo is the cut lever. Carmer on the attached photo and bottom operated on the linked photo.

 

 

Andy Cich

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 5:13 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tank heads on depressed center flat on EJE

 

Folks;

 

Does this flat car look like the PRR F29, also attached? (Granted, different trucks; the second order of F29 got Commonwealths).

 

http://www.ejearchive.com/index.php?/albums/official-loads/content/co-loads-331/lightbox/

 

Do those sheets look like tank or boiler heads?  Interesting loading technique!

 

Elden Gatwood



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Thanks, Brian!

 

I have to go from memory here, but I think this is the PRR’s 3F-F1 “Kiesel” truck found on the first group of F29.

 

The later group had Buckeyes, for sure.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of BRIAN PAUL EHNI
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 9:16 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Tank heads on depressed center flat on EJE

 

This is what I’m talking about…

Attached photo side frame:

 

Lightbox side frame:

 

To my eye, there is a second hump for axles 2&3

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Andy Cich <ajc5150@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Monday, December 21, 2020 at 7:51 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>, <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tank heads on depressed center flat on EJE

 

The linked photo sure does look like an F29. The sill steps, grab irons, poling pockets, and polling pocket rivets all match up.

 

About the only difference between the attached photo and the linked photo is the cut lever. Carmer on the attached photo and bottom operated on the linked photo.

 

 

Andy Cich

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 5:13 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tank heads on depressed center flat on EJE

 

Folks;

 

Does this flat car look like the PRR F29, also attached? (Granted, different trucks; the second order of F29 got Commonwealths).

 

http://www.ejearchive.com/index.php?/albums/official-loads/content/co-loads-331/lightbox/

 

Do those sheets look like tank or boiler heads?  Interesting loading technique!

 

Elden Gatwood


Mike Settle
 

Tim,

Olfa makes a nice circle cutter. Amazon.com : OLFA Rotary Circle Cutter : Office Products

Mike Settle


mopacfirst
 

About the circular steel sheets --

Those could be cut sheets going to a head shop.  (This was forty or fifty years before the term 'head shop' took on a more popular meaning.)  Heads are formed by pressing, and bigger ones can be formed by a circular rolling motion where the press head gradually forms the solid curve by rotating the piece from the center outward.  Think of it as the 3D version of the three-roll press used to bend strip or shapes.  In my neck of the woods there is a head shop right off Highway 6 just south of Navasota, Texas.

Or they could be going to a tank shop for use as flat heads on non-pressure tanks.

Ron Merrick


Tim O'Connor
 


How about bulkheads for submarine construction? General Dynamics in New London CT. Any other sub builders
out there?



On 12/22/2020 11:04 AM, mopacfirst wrote:
About the circular steel sheets --

Those could be cut sheets going to a head shop.  (This was forty or fifty years before the term 'head shop' took on a more popular meaning.)  Heads are formed by pressing, and bigger ones can be formed by a circular rolling motion where the press head gradually forms the solid curve by rotating the piece from the center outward.  Think of it as the 3D version of the three-roll press used to bend strip or shapes.  In my neck of the woods there is a head shop right off Highway 6 just south of Navasota, Texas.

Or they could be going to a tank shop for use as flat heads on non-pressure tanks.

Ron Merrick

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Tim O'Connor
 


yep some had Buckeyes


On 12/22/2020 10:35 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

Thanks, Brian!

 

I have to go from memory here, but I think this is the PRR’s 3F-F1 “Kiesel” truck found on the first group of F29.

 

The later group had Buckeyes, for sure.

 

Elden Gatwood



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


David Wiggs
 

Sub bulkheads for 585 up through 688 classes would've been 33 feet in diameter and even larger with the newer ones.  They would've been fabricated in the building yards along with the frames.  See attached construction photo of SSN 596 bulkhead.
 
Davo in Orlando


Douglas Harding
 

Use an Olaf compass cutter https://www.amazon.com/OLFA-1057028-Rotary-Circle-Cutter/dp/B001CEAMCY

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2020 8:50 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tank heads on depressed center flat on EJE

 


How would you go about cutting perfect circles from sheet styrene to model
that load? I'm thinking .020 sheet looks about right for those.




On 12/21/2020 8:51 PM, Andy Cich wrote:

The linked photo sure does look like an F29. The sill steps, grab irons, poling pockets, and polling pocket rivets all match up.

 

About the only difference between the attached photo and the linked photo is the cut lever. Carmer on the attached photo and bottom operated on the linked photo.

 

 

Andy Cich

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 5:13 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tank heads on depressed center flat on EJE

 

Folks;

 

Does this flat car look like the PRR F29, also attached? (Granted, different trucks; the second order of F29 got Commonwealths).

 

http://www.ejearchive.com/index.php?/albums/official-loads/content/co-loads-331/lightbox/

 

Do those sheets look like tank or boiler heads?  Interesting loading technique!

 

Elden Gatwood

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Kenneth Montero
 

You might want to try a rotary circle cutter, which is used by textile artists. Olfa makes one, so does Fiskars. Has anyone on this list used such a product?
 
Ken Montero

On 12/22/2020 9:49 AM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
 
 

How would you go about cutting perfect circles from sheet styrene to model
that load? I'm thinking .020 sheet looks about right for those.




On 12/21/2020 8:51 PM, Andy Cich wrote:

The linked photo sure does look like an F29. The sill steps, grab irons, poling pockets, and polling pocket rivets all match up.

 

About the only difference between the attached photo and the linked photo is the cut lever. Carmer on the attached photo and bottom operated on the linked photo.

 

 

Andy Cich

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 5:13 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tank heads on depressed center flat on EJE

 

Folks;

 

Does this flat car look like the PRR F29, also attached? (Granted, different trucks; the second order of F29 got Commonwealths).

 

http://www.ejearchive.com/index.php?/albums/official-loads/content/co-loads-331/lightbox/

 

Do those sheets look like tank or boiler heads?  Interesting loading technique!

 

Elden Gatwood


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Benjamin Hom
 

Tim O'Connor asked: 
"How about bulkheads for submarine construction? General Dynamics in New London CT.  Any other sub builders out there?"

Let's call New London by it's traditional name - Electric Boat.  Other builders before the Nuclear Navy: Portsmouth Naval Shipyard (Kittery, ME), Mare Island Naval Shipyard (Vallejo, CA), Manitowoc Shipbuilding Company (WWII - Manitowoc, WI).


Ben Hom 


Jim and Barbara van Gaasbeek
 

Currently, submarines are built, in part, at Electric Boat, in Connecticut, and Newport News, in Virginia.  (Note that Newport News has a new name).  One part is built in each shipyard, and alternately, floated to the other for final assembly.

 

Jim van Gaasbeek

Irvine, CA

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Benjamin Hom
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2020 1:45 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tank heads on depressed center flat on EJE

 

Tim O'Connor asked: 

"How about bulkheads for submarine construction? General Dynamics in New London CT.  Any other sub builders out there?"

 

Let's call New London by it's traditional name - Electric Boat.  Other builders before the Nuclear Navy: Portsmouth Naval Shipyard (Kittery, ME), Mare Island Naval Shipyard (Vallejo, CA), Manitowoc Shipbuilding Company (WWII - Manitowoc, WI).

 

 

Ben Hom 


O Fenton Wells
 

They used to build parts at the old Quansit Point RI NAS but not sure they still do
Fenton Wells


On Dec 24, 2020, at 6:51 PM, Jim and Barbara van Gaasbeek <jvgbvg@...> wrote:



Currently, submarines are built, in part, at Electric Boat, in Connecticut, and Newport News, in Virginia.  (Note that Newport News has a new name).  One part is built in each shipyard, and alternately, floated to the other for final assembly.

 

Jim van Gaasbeek

Irvine, CA

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Benjamin Hom
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2020 1:45 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tank heads on depressed center flat on EJE

 

Tim O'Connor asked: 

"How about bulkheads for submarine construction? General Dynamics in New London CT.  Any other sub builders out there?"

 

Let's call New London by it's traditional name - Electric Boat.  Other builders before the Nuclear Navy: Portsmouth Naval Shipyard (Kittery, ME), Mare Island Naval Shipyard (Vallejo, CA), Manitowoc Shipbuilding Company (WWII - Manitowoc, WI).

 

 

Ben Hom 


Benjamin Hom
 

Jim van Gaasbeek wrote:
"Currently, submarines are built, in part, at Electric Boat, in Connecticut, and Newport News, in Virginia.  (Note that Newport News has a new name).  One part is built in each shipyard, and alternately, floated to the other for final assembly."

Newport News Shipbuilding and Drydock Company laid down USS G-1 (SS-19 1/2) in 1909 as a private venture (hence the 1/2 in the hull number), commissioning in 1912.  Their first nuclear submarine, USS ROBERT E. LEE (SSBN-601) was launched in 1959 (just making the timeframe of this list).  NNSB&DD is now the Newport News division of Huntington Ingalls Industries. 

Fenton Wells wrote:
"They used to build parts at the old Qu[o]ns[e]t Point RI NAS but not sure they still do."

They still do...but they didn't start work there until 1973, well after the period of this list.


Ben Hom