Temiskaming and Northern Ontario Railway boxcars


Bruce Smith
 

Folks,

 

The predecessor of the Ontario Northland, the Temiskaming and Northern Ontario Railway, reporting marks TEM (and specifically called out in the ORER as not to be confused with the T&NO RR or Temiscouata Ry.)  had a modest fleet of boxcars in service in interchange service in the early 1940s. The 1943 ORER lists 212 boxcars, all 36' interior length, 8' (or 8'1") interior height and either wooden or single sheathed bodies in 4 series (2 each). These were apparently in newsprint service, often to the United States. 


I am curious to know more about the type of cars, possible models, and potential decals (There was a Clover House set of dry transfers, but I think that they were for an earlier time period).

 

Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


al_brown03
 

Swain and Clegg (MM 4/86 p 53) describe TEM 80200-80398 even and 80400-80498 even as "Dominion-type" single-sheathed cars similar to CGR and CN cars. I'd imagine they could be modelled using Westerfield's Fowler kits. 

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


John Riddell
 

Bruce,

The T&NO purchased two groups of 36' Fowler single-sheathed boxcars. 

Group 1 -- 100 cars in series 80200-80398 (even numbers)  formerly Can Govt Railways 81611-82610, built 1917 with 5' doors, and 4 post ends

Group 2 -- 50 cars in series 80400-80498 (even numbers)  formerly CN 427000-427999,  built 1923 with 6' doors.

Group 3 -- 100 cars series 80000-80198, (even numbers) 36', all wood body, 6 foot doors  

Group 4  -  50 cars series 60100-60198, (even numbers), 36', all wood body, 6'-5" doors. . 

In Dec 1953 the following numbers continued in revenue service

group 1 34
group 2, 20
group 3, 6
group 4, 0

The TEM changed name to Ontario Northland (ONT) in 1946.
It took some time to re-letter the boxcars with ONT reporting marks. 
Some of the Fowler box cars were re-lettered with ONT reporting marks. One was ONT 80276.

There are very few photos of these cars. 
There have been no lettering sets commercially available for the TEM or ONT cars.

Reasonable models can be built using the various HO kits available for Fowler boxcars. 

Hope this helps.
John Riddell 


John Riddell
 

Correction:

Series 80200-80398 were purchased new in June 1917 from CC&F with specifications matching CGR 81611-82610 built in 1917 by CC&F. 

Series 80400-80498 were purchased new from National Steel Car of Hamilton, Ontario in 1923. These were same specifications as CNR series 427000-427999 built in 1923 by NSC.  

John Riddell


Robert kirkham
 

I came up with nothing.  My searches used the word Temiskaming on the following:
- the Library and Archives Canada on line site, 
- Quebec National Archives (search with Temiscamingue)
- McCord Museum
- the Glenow Museum on-line site, 
- the Provincial Archives of Ontario site, 
- the Province of Alberta Archives site, 
- Walter Frost collection at City of Vancouver Archives site,  
- Vancouver Public Library photo collection
- BC Provincial Archives site
- Northern BC Archives site
- the Chung Collection at UBC Open Library 
- Ebay

Found various references and photos, but nothing of the freight car fleet owned by the railway in the mid-20th century.  Frost took three photos of steel boxcars but they were all 40’ cars built after WWII.  

So, basically, scratched the surface . . .


Rob



On Jan 24, 2022, at 2:52 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Folks,

 

The predecessor of the Ontario Northland, the Temiskaming and Northern Ontario Railway, reporting marks TEM (and specifically called out in the ORER as not to be confused with the T&NO RR or Temiscouata Ry.)  had a modest fleet of boxcars in service in interchange service in the early 1940s. The 1943 ORER lists 212 boxcars, all 36' interior length, 8' (or 8'1") interior height and either wooden or single sheathed bodies in 4 series (2 each). These were apparently in newsprint service, often to the United States. 

I am curious to know more about the type of cars, possible models, and potential decals (There was a Clover House set of dry transfers, but I think that they were for an earlier time period).

 

Regards,
Bruce 
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Ray Breyer
 

I only have two images of TEM/ON Fowlers in my collection, both lifted from eBay auctions. They're attached.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL



On Monday, January 24, 2022, 07:14:11 PM CST, John Riddell <riddellj@...> wrote:


Bruce,

The T&NO purchased two groups of 36' Fowler single-sheathed boxcars. 

Group 1 -- 100 cars in series 80200-80398 (even numbers)  formerly Can Govt Railways 81611-82610, built 1917 with 5' doors, and 4 post ends

Group 2 -- 50 cars in series 80400-80498 (even numbers)  formerly CN 427000-427999,  built 1923 with 6' doors.

Group 3 -- 100 cars series 80000-80198, (even numbers) 36', all wood body, 6 foot doors  

Group 4  -  50 cars series 60100-60198, (even numbers), 36', all wood body, 6'-5" doors. . 

In Dec 1953 the following numbers continued in revenue service

group 1 34
group 2, 20
group 3, 6
group 4, 0

The TEM changed name to Ontario Northland (ONT) in 1946.
It took some time to re-letter the boxcars with ONT reporting marks. 
Some of the Fowler box cars were re-lettered with ONT reporting marks. One was ONT 80276.

There are very few photos of these cars. 
There have been no lettering sets commercially available for the TEM or ONT cars.

Reasonable models can be built using the various HO kits available for Fowler boxcars. 

Hope this helps.
John Riddell 


John Barry
 

Bruce,

The TEM's Railway Accounting Code was 754 and 33 of their 149 stations had agents and their remainder were prepay only for receiving freight.  At Trout Mills Ont. Wm. Milne & Sons was the only consignee that could receive carload freight, others were LCL only.  Dome, Ont was a private siding only.  Chesterville Larder Lake Gold Mines and Kerr-Addison Gold Mine in Cheminis as well as Broulan Porcupine Mines, Ltd and Pamour Mines in Pamour could receive collect shipments when the other consignees at those stations had to be pre-paid. Hallnor mines was the only consignee that could receive freight at Hallnor.  And Englehart North,  Ont., althugh a manned station, was a junction point and no freight was handled there whatsoever.

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA


707-490-9696 






On Monday, January 24, 2022, 05:52:49 PM EST, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


Folks,

 

The predecessor of the Ontario Northland, the Temiskaming and Northern Ontario Railway, reporting marks TEM (and specifically called out in the ORER as not to be confused with the T&NO RR or Temiscouata Ry.)  had a modest fleet of boxcars in service in interchange service in the early 1940s. The 1943 ORER lists 212 boxcars, all 36' interior length, 8' (or 8'1") interior height and either wooden or single sheathed bodies in 4 series (2 each). These were apparently in newsprint service, often to the United States. 


I am curious to know more about the type of cars, possible models, and potential decals (There was a Clover House set of dry transfers, but I think that they were for an earlier time period).

 

Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


Ian Cranstone
 

I hadn't been aware of these specific follow-on orders, but the practice of smaller Canadian roads placing an order for cars identical to and immediately following one by a major Canadian road seems to not be uncommon: BC Rail did so as recently as 1979-80 with boxcars that were a followup to a CN series.

I can certainly see why the smaller roads might be interested in doing such things... there had to be a cost saving in terms of the builder already having the jigs on the floor, and workers that clearly understood construction sequences and challenges of any particular car build. Clearly the builders were willing to pass along some of the savings, which would result in such orders being more affordable for smaller roads.

It would be interesting to see how this sort of order was created... did the smaller road explore with builders to see what orders were in the books that they might be able to tack on to, or did the builders reach out to smaller roads on a regular basis to see if they might be interested in acquiring cars -- especially if the builder expected some downtime following said larger order.

Ian Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@...


On 2022-01-24 20:45, John Riddell wrote:

Correction:

Series 80200-80398 were purchased new in June 1917 from CC&F with specifications matching CGR 81611-82610 built in 1917 by CC&F. 

Series 80400-80498 were purchased new from National Steel Car of Hamilton, Ontario in 1923. These were same specifications as CNR series 427000-427999 built in 1923 by NSC.  


David
 

From what I've seen over the years, a smaller railroad would typically solicit bids from various builders for a particular order they were planning, and the builders would respond with a quote for a design they had recently booked a larger order for.

David Thompson