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Peter Ness

#68439

Jeff White wrote;

"Walthers Gold Line is releasing a flexi-van car that they say first ran 
in 1957. Walthers Part # 932-23923, p. 144 Walthers 2008 HO Scale 
Reference get's a two pack of them with trailers. The website doesn't 
say if they are 36 ft or 40 ft trailers."

Jeff, to the best of my knowledge the Walthers Flexi-Van car is a Type II or III and was released after 1960.  You are correct about the first Flexi-Vans being pre-1960.  Because I model 1959, I did not pay tremendous attention to the release of these cars after learning they post-date my period of interest.

Regards,
Peter
http://www.freewebs.com/newhavenrailroad1959/

Jeffrey White

#68441

Peter,
Thanks for the info. If that's the case I will pass too as I'm modeling the IC between 1956 and 1960.
Jeff

Peter Ness wrote:

Show quoted text

Jeff, to the best of my knowledge the Walthers Flexi-Van car is a Type II or III and was released after 1960. You are correct about the first Flexi-Vans being pre-1960. Because I model 1959, I did not pay tremendous attention to the release of these cars after learning they post-date my period of interest.

Regards,
Peter
http://www.freewebs.com/newhavenrailroad1959/ <http://www.freewebs.com/newhavenrailroad1959/>

Peter Ness

#68443

Re: Athearn 86' flat with trailers

Ben Hom wrote;

"It's true that these cars were more widely used by 1962-1964, but this 
prototype first appeared in 1959."

Ben;
Perhaps my opinion only, but am not sure there need be an association with when the car first appeared.  While I am not familiar with TOFC operations in Maine in 1960, I can state the New Haven was running 40' TOFC's into the late 50's when they procured the Clejan flats which had capacity for two 35' trailers.  Other than the peculiar anchor mechanism for the trailers, the overall car design wasn't bad, but in the late '50's the "standard" ACF Type I hitch made it's appearance and with the TrailerTrain consortium on the scene efforts in standardization for TOFC interchange were afoot.  While TOFC's of 75' and longer were in service before 1960, no all railroads had load/unload facilities to accommodate the various lengths and designs simultaneously.  It is very likely that in the early days of TOFC interchange, there were restrictions on TOFC car types that were acceptable for such service.  The Clejans were a good example of this since they saw limited if any interchange service.  The New Haven procured their first 85' TOFC's about 1964 and I am almost certain that in other regions of the country they were in widespread service by that time.

Regards,
Peter
http://www.freewebs.com/newhavenrailroad1959/

Peter Ness

#68456

Tim O'Connor wrote:

"That's right, but the trailer they used is a late 1960's Fruehauf (a really
nice model actually) and the trailer paint schemes are from the early 60's
or later. I almost bought the MP model but the trailer was simply not an
accurate representation of that prototype so I passed." 

Tim; 
I believe the Athearn is to represent the Fruehauf "Z-van" which appeared mid-'60's, but you're right on target anyway - a great trailer model in the incorrect (earlier) paint or lettering scheme...

Regards.
Peter
http://www.freewebs.com/newhavenrailroad1959/

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>

#68447

Peter Ness wrote:
It is very likely that in the early days of TOFC interchange, there were restrictions on TOFC car types that were acceptable for such service.  The Clejans were a good example of this since they saw limited if any interchange service.      This is very true, and not accidental--not every road WANTED interchange service.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Tim O'Connor

#68453

Peter

These are the "sales figures" for the early flats that
most closely match the Athearn F85B (not F85F as I wrote
before -- F is the designation for Bethlehem built cars,
while the F85B's were Pullman cars)

    Early cars -- had a slight fishbelly side sill and
    so are slightly different than the Athearn model)

    1959: C&O     100
          D&RGW   24
          FEC     20
          NATX    12 (North American Car)
          TTX     500 (STTX reporting marks)
          UP      100
          WM      10
          WP      25

    Athearn F85B:

    1960: NATX    7 (North American Car)
          SOO     15
          TTX     1397
    1961: NATX    322 (North American Car)
          TLCX    11 (PS Transport Leasing)
          TTX     536
    1962: RI      50
          TTX     598
    1963: ACL     4
          D&RGW   25
          RI      50
          SOO     10
          TTX     325
    1964: TTX     15

close-to-correct RTR models: (hitches may need replacement,
and there is no exact model for 1959 schemes)
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92618
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92616
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92607
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92621
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92624
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92614
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92606
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92603
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92602

Tim O'Connor

Show quoted text

Ben Hom wrote;

"It's true that these cars were more widely used by 1962-1964, but this
prototype first appeared in 1959."

Ben;
Perhaps my opinion only, but am not sure there need be an association with when the car first appeared.  While I am not familiar with TOFC operations in Maine in 1960, I can state the New Haven was running 40' TOFC's into the late 50's when they procured the Clejan flats which had capacity for two 35' trailers.  Other than the peculiar anchor mechanism for the trailers, the overall car design wasn't bad, but in the late '50's the "standard" ACF Type I hitch made it's appearance and with the TrailerTrain consortium on the scene efforts in standardization for TOFC interchange were afoot.  While TOFC's of 75' and longer were in service before 1960, no all railroads had load/unload facilities to accommodate the various lengths and designs simultaneously.  It is very likely that in the early days of TOFC interchange, there were restrictions on TOFC car types that were acceptable for such service.  The Clejans were a good example of this since they saw limited if any interchange service.  The New Haven procured their first 85' TOFC's about 1964 and I am almost certain that in other regions of the country they were in widespread service by that time.

Regards,
Peter
http://www.freewebs.com/newhavenrailroad1959/

Tim O'Connor

#68454

Peter Ness wrote:
It is very likely that in the early days of TOFC interchange, there 
were restrictions on TOFC car types that were acceptable for such 
service.  The Clejans were a good example of this since they saw 
limited if any interchange service.This is very true, and not accidental--not every road WANTED 
interchange service.
Tony ThompsonAnd I think tariffs and routes were highly restricted. Joint
tariffs would be required for interchange yes? Even today thousands
of containers & trailers are 'interchanged' daily by being driven
from one railroad terminal to another in Chicago and other places.

Tim O'Connor

Tim O'Connor

#68458

This particular x-post Z-van design was made from 1968
through 1976. The old Athearn Fruehauf trailer is based
on a reefer trailer built for PFE in the early 1960's.
In any case the trailer paint schemes (like this one)
are anachronistic as applied to these RTR flats w/ trailers.

http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH72461

This is the Mopac scheme I like, which dates from the late
1950's and was applied to earlier x-post trailers.
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH72457

Tim O'Connor

Show quoted text

Tim O'Connor wrote:

"That's right, but the trailer they used is a late 1960's Fruehauf (a really
nice model actually) and the trailer paint schemes are from the early 60's
or later. I almost bought the MP model but the trailer was simply not an
accurate representation of that prototype so I passed." 

Tim; 
I believe the Athearn is to represent the Fruehauf "Z-van" which appeared mid-'60's, but you're right on target anyway - a great trailer model in the incorrect (earlier) paint or lettering scheme...

Regards.
Peter

James Fellows

#68494

I read a bit about MEC TOFC operations.  They began in 1958 with two trailers hauling groceries for IGA between Portland and Bangor.  In 1964 the MEC handled 770 trailers.  So for a 1960 you need very few trailers and flats.

Jim Fellows

Show quoted text

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Tim O'Connor 
  To: STMFC@... 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 10:21 AM
  Subject: [STMFC] Re: TOFC

  This particular x-post Z-van design was made from 1968
  through 1976. The old Athearn Fruehauf trailer is based
  on a reefer trailer built for PFE in the early 1960's.
  In any case the trailer paint schemes (like this one)
  are anachronistic as applied to these RTR flats w/ trailers.

  http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH72461

  This is the Mopac scheme I like, which dates from the late
  1950's and was applied to earlier x-post trailers.
  http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH72457

  Tim O'Connor

  >Tim O'Connor wrote:
  >
  >"That's right, but the trailer they used is a late 1960's Fruehauf (a really
  >nice model actually) and the trailer paint schemes are from the early 60's
  >or later. I almost bought the MP model but the trailer was simply not an
  >accurate representation of that prototype so I passed." 
  >
  >Tim; 
  >I believe the Athearn is to represent the Fruehauf "Z-van" which appeared mid-'60's, but you're right on target anyway - a great trailer model in the incorrect (earlier) paint or lettering scheme...
  >
  >Regards.
  >Peter