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UP Frt Conductor Book Data...a quick look


Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

A quick look at the UP Freight conductor's book that I recently acquired...thanks to Jeff Aley bringing it to my attention...shows some interesting stuff. First, the book contains data on 35 UP trains between Laramie and Rawlins [ to the west ], WY, over about a month and a half...Mar 6 to April 22, 1949.

As I have always maintained, every frt car...or one of its class...crossed Sherman Hill at least once in its life. This book seems to prove that out. The variety of RRs is impressive...not unexpected for a trunk line like UP in Wyoming I suppose.

One train of particular interest is one carrying only ore. I cannot actually tell if the ore carrying cars are in only one train or part of another...given the structure of the book. Anyhow, the ore carrying cars are all box cars. Perhaps most surprising is that none are UP. Roads included are SLSF, NH [ NH?], IC, NYC, CN, NP, L&N, Milw, MP, ATSF, Q, RI, NKP, KCS, CNW, SAL, and Sou and that's from a string of only 26 cars.

I have not dertimined destination completely. LA-4 and SP-1 are mentioned frequently, as are numbers 2,3,5, & 6. The ore string of cars is going to Van 6. These destinations are not stations since 3 would be that for Omaha and the referenced train is westbound.

Commodities are listed fairly well. For instance there are loads of wine, oil, and gasoline and associated tank cars. One strange load is milk in ATSF 6970...a box car.

Naturally I had to check for the elusive N&W hopper....I can feel the crowd grow tense, sudden silence in anticipation.

Here's a list of coal or coke carrying cars included in trains I've checked...about half of the 35 listed: Loads are coal unless indicated.

1. Pennsy gon G-29 359601
2. B&O gon 261628
3. MP gon 72363
4. Lackawanna gon 66057
5. NYC gon 631040 coke
6. Frisco hopper 86496 coke
7. MKT gon 41492

***** WARNING WARNING WARNING
8. N&W gon 91097
9. N&W gon 100350 pitch

Does this qualify me to win the cash prize...or bounty...offered [ or should be offered ] by certain westcoast frt car aficionados ? Well, technically, no. These are not hoppers. But, they were carrying coal. Now, if I can just figure out what destination 3 is.

10. Frisco gon 84100
11. MP gon 66850
12. MP hopper 59413
13. L&N hopper 65073
14. Lehigh Valley hopper 24613
15. Q ballast hopper 221662
16. Q comp gon 166948
17. NYC gon 711577
18. Q ballast hopper 221725
19. KCS hopper 29107

There were a few UP cars also listed as carrying coal. Note that these are all westbound except for NYC 711577. Also I expect to uncover empties coming back east. BTW, seldom are more than 2 coal carrying cars in the same train.

Another perhaps oddity is a train of empties westbound consisting entirely of UP cars and Sinclair tank cars. Sinclair was/is about 7 miles east of Rawlins. I assume the train probably dropped the 60 or so Sinclair cars there.

Mike Brock...more to come


Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...>
 

On Mar 1, 11:48am, Mike Brock wrote:
Subject: [STMFC] UP Frt Conductor Book Data...a quick look
I have not dertimined destination completely. LA-4 and SP-1 are
mentioned frequently, as are numbers 2,3,5, & 6. The ore string of cars is
going to Van 6. These destinations are not stations since 3 would be that
for Omaha and the referenced train is westbound.

Espee train numbers???

Here's a list of coal or coke carrying cars included in trains I've
checked...about half of the 35 listed: Loads are coal unless indicated.

1. Pennsy gon G-29 359601
2. B&O gon 261628
3. MP gon 72363
4. Lackawanna gon 66057
5. NYC gon 631040 coke
6. Frisco hopper 86496 coke
7. MKT gon 41492
8. N&W gon 91097
9. N&W gon 100350 pitch
10. Frisco gon 84100
11. MP gon 66850
12. MP hopper 59413
13. L&N hopper 65073
14. Lehigh Valley hopper 24613
15. Q ballast hopper 221662
16. Q comp gon 166948
17. NYC gon 711577
18. Q ballast hopper 221725
19. KCS hopper 29107

Twelve of the 19 cars were gons, including some from eastern
roads. I find this surprising even though I've been known to chant the
Henrickson mantra of the West: "more gons than hoppers...more gons than
hoppers".

Any helium cars? You've got 7 hoppers, and we all know that
Richard claims there were more helium cars than hoppers (in the West, at
least).


Another perhaps oddity is a train of empties westbound consisting
entirely of UP cars and Sinclair tank cars. Sinclair was/is about 7 miles
east of Rawlins. I assume the train probably dropped the 60 or so Sinclair
cars there.

Yep. This correlates pretty well with a Frt. Conductor's Train Book that
I have. Mine's from ca. 1960 and most of the trains are locals to
Sinclair. Almost all of the cars are tanks, with a significant portion UP
(for on-line fuel, I suppose).

Regards,

-Jeff

--
Jeff Aley, Development Engineer jaley@...
Graphics Components Division
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


n40015@...
 

Mike.... this is a super find! And I'm sure you're as suprised to find the
great range of cars in the consists as anyone. I'd like to make a trade with
you. If you share the tank car data with me, I'll swap what info I can
uncover regarding the L&N rolling stock. :-) Charlie

Charles Dean
Shelbyville, Ky.

In a message dated 3/1/1 11:51:18 AM, brockm@... writes:

<< A quick look at the UP Freight conductor's book that I recently
acquired...thanks to Jeff Aley bringing it to my attention...shows some
interesting stuff. First, the book contains data on 35 UP trains between
Laramie and Rawlins [ to the west ], WY, over about a month and a half...Mar
6 to April 22, 1949.

As I have always maintained, every frt car...or one of its class...crossed
Sherman Hill at least once in its life. This book seems to prove that out.
The variety of RRs is impressive...not unexpected for a trunk line like UP in
Wyoming I suppose.

One train of particular interest is one carrying only ore. I cannot actually
tell if the ore carrying cars are in only one train or part of
another...given the structure of the book. Anyhow, the ore carrying cars are
all box cars. Perhaps most surprising is that none are UP. Roads included are
SLSF, NH [ NH?], IC, NYC, CN, NP, L&N, Milw, MP, ATSF, Q, RI, NKP, KCS, CNW,
SAL, and Sou and that's from a string of only 26 cars.

I have not dertimined destination completely. LA-4 and SP-1 are mentioned
frequently, as are numbers 2,3,5, & 6. The ore string of cars is going to Van
6. These destinations are not stations since 3 would be that for Omaha and
the referenced train is westbound.

Commodities are listed fairly well. For instance there are loads of wine,
oil, and gasoline and associated tank cars. One strange load is milk in ATSF
6970...a box car.

Naturally I had to check for the elusive N&W hopper....I can feel the crowd
grow tense, sudden silence in anticipation.

Here's a list of coal or coke carrying cars included in trains I've
checked...about half of the 35 listed: Loads are coal unless indicated.

1. Pennsy gon G-29 359601
2. B&O gon 261628
3. MP gon 72363
4. Lackawanna gon 66057
5. NYC gon 631040 coke
6. Frisco hopper 86496 coke
7. MKT gon 41492

***** WARNING WARNING WARNING
8. N&W gon 91097
9. N&W gon 100350 pitch

Does this qualify me to win the cash prize...or bounty...offered [ or should
be offered ] by certain westcoast frt car aficionados ? Well, technically,
no. These are not hoppers. But, they were carrying coal. Now, if I can just
figure out what destination 3 is.

10. Frisco gon 84100
11. MP gon 66850
12. MP hopper 59413
13. L&N hopper 65073
14. Lehigh Valley hopper 24613
15. Q ballast hopper 221662
16. Q comp gon 166948
17. NYC gon 711577
18. Q ballast hopper 221725
19. KCS hopper 29107

There were a few UP cars also listed as carrying coal. Note that these are
all westbound except for NYC 711577. Also I expect to uncover empties coming
back east. BTW, seldom are more than 2 coal carrying cars in the same train.

Another perhaps oddity is a train of empties westbound consisting entirely of
UP cars and Sinclair tank cars. Sinclair was/is about 7 miles east of
Rawlins. I assume the train probably dropped the 60 or so Sinclair cars
there.

Mike Brock...more to come >>


Richard Hendrickson
 

Jeff Aley writes, about Mike Brock's UP consist data:

Twelve of the 19 cars were gons, including some from eastern
roads. I find this surprising even though I've been known to chant the
Henrickson mantra of the West: "more gons than hoppers...more gons than
hoppers".

Any helium cars? You've got 7 hoppers, and we all know that
Richard claims there were more helium cars than hoppers (in the West, at
least).
I never claimed this was true "in the west," certainly not on Sherman Hill
(which, as we've previously established, is only marginally in the real
west), only in the Los Angeles area. And if you're going to mis-quote me,
at least spell my name right.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

I wrote:

I have not dertimined destination completely. LA-4 and SP-1 are
mentioned frequently, as are numbers 2,3,5, & 6. The ore string of cars is
going to Van 6. These destinations are not stations since 3 would be that
for Omaha and the referenced train is westbound.
And Jeff Aley responds with:

Espee train numbers???
Well, not LA-4...since the UP went to LA on its own...well sort of. Sounds
like SP-1 is/was. Don't know what the other numbers stood for.

I wrote:

Here's a list of coal or coke carrying cars included in trains I've
checked...about half of the 35 listed: Loads are coal unless indicated.

1. Pennsy gon G-29 359601
2. B&O gon 261628
3. MP gon 72363
4. Lackawanna gon 66057
5. NYC gon 631040 coke
6. Frisco hopper 86496 coke
7. MKT gon 41492
8. N&W gon 91097
9. N&W gon 100350 pitch
10. Frisco gon 84100
11. MP gon 66850
12. MP hopper 59413
13. L&N hopper 65073
14. Lehigh Valley hopper 24613
15. Q ballast hopper 221662
16. Q comp gon 166948
17. NYC gon 711577
18. Q ballast hopper 221725
19. KCS hopper 29107
Jeff answers with:

Twelve of the 19 cars were gons, including some from eastern
roads. I find this surprising even though I've been known to chant the
Henrickson mantra of the West: "more gons than hoppers...more gons than
hoppers".
I respond:
One thing that should be considered...and perhaps Richard, Tony, and others
have...is that a hopper car was built to be unloaded through the rails...or
turned completely over as at Norfolk and other ports. If you had a site that
required a load of some kind of coal every week or two you likely would not
have the facility to unload it through...and under the rails...so you might
unload it with a crane...or even some poor sods with shovels.... of some
kind. This might be more adapted to a gon than a deeper hopper. Just
speculating of course.

Any helium cars? You've got 7 hoppers, and we all know that
Richard claims there were more helium cars than hoppers (in the West, at
least).
I'll be checking on helium loads soon....after checking on wine loads and,
perhaps, sampling some myself...California varieties of course...or those
from Oregon if I could find them down here.

Mike Brock


Richard Hendrickson
 

Mike Brock wrote:

One thing that should be considered...and perhaps Richard, Tony, and others
have...is that a hopper car was built to be unloaded through the rails...or
turned completely over as at Norfolk and other ports. If you had a site that
required a load of some kind of coal every week or two you likely would not
have the facility to unload it through...and under the rails...so you might
unload it with a crane...or even some poor sods with shovels.... of some
kind. This might be more adapted to a gon than a deeper hopper. Just
speculating of course.
Earth to Mike. Tony and I (and others) have been making this point for
years. Aside from the fact that coal wasn't widely used as a fuel in the
western U.S., hardly any users had elevated unloading facilities; that's
why the western RRs largely favored GS gondolas rather than hopper cars for
bulk mineral loads. In the east as well as the west, coal was often
shipped in gondolas to recipients who had no elevated trestles (that's why
N&W, Clinchfield, C&O, L&N, etc. had all those gondolas) and was unloaded
with clamshell buckets (which were very hard on the cars, of course) or,
yes, with hand shovels powered by "Norwegian steam." There were very few
places in the west where cross-hopper cars could be conveniently unloaded.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Brock [mailto:brockm@...]
I have not dertimined destination completely. LA-4 and SP-1 are
mentioned frequently, as are numbers 2,3,5, & 6. The ore string
of cars is going to Van 6. These destinations are not stations
since 3 would be that for Omaha and the referenced train is westbound.

Mike, those numbers are the block id's for use at Odgen. Somewhere around
here I've got an issue of the Streamliner that included a 1940 timetable
that had those numbers. I'll see if I can find them.

I've got 2 books from the same conductor as Mike mentions here and Tim
Gilbert has another. So far I'd transcribed about 500 cars and linked them
to my ORER database (as I've done with the SRR books I have). Not enough of
a sample to say much, but when that question on PRR turtleback's popped up I
had the answer about 15 seconds after the software loaded.

For the techies:

select train.Train_id, Call_Dt, Road, Car_nbr
from consist, train
where consist.train_id=train.train_id
and consist.cb_series = orer!roster.cb_series
and orer!roster.class_id='X31F';

8-)

Dave Nelson


Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...>
 

On Mar 1, 10:58pm, Dave & Libby Nelson wrote:
Subject: RE: [STMFC] UP Frt Conductor Book Data...a quick look
So far I'd transcribed about 500 cars and linked them
to my ORER database (as I've done with the SRR books I have). Not
enough of
a sample to say much, but when that question on PRR turtleback's popped
up I
had the answer about 15 seconds after the software loaded.

For the techies:

select train.Train_id, Call_Dt, Road, Car_nbr
from consist, train
where consist.train_id=train.train_id
and consist.cb_series = orer!roster.cb_series
and orer!roster.class_id='X31F';
I'm the wrong kind of techie (I'm a hardware guy), but I'll try to fake
it. What about

select mfr, part_number
from HO_kit
where HO_kit.prototype=orer!roster.class_id
and orer!roster.class_id='X31F'

[or something like that] ??

Regards,

-Jeff


--
Jeff Aley, Development Engineer jaley@...
Graphics Components Division
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Aley - GCD PE [mailto:jaley@...]
I'm the wrong kind of techie (I'm a hardware guy), but I'll try to fake
it. What about

select mfr, part_number
from HO_kit
where HO_kit.prototype=orer!roster.class_id
and orer!roster.class_id='X31F'
You got the comprehensive list of accurate models & the mapping from that
list over to railroad car series numbers? I'll load it if you do. 8-)

[or something like that] ??
Ahh, the specificity of a true hardware guy! Causes one to reflect on the
meaning of life.

Dave Nelson