Date
1 - 9 of 9
UP Frt Conductor Book Data...a quick look
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Mike Brock <brockm@...>
A quick look at the UP Freight conductor's book that I recently acquired...thanks to Jeff Aley bringing it to my attention...shows some interesting stuff. First, the book contains data on 35 UP trains between Laramie and Rawlins [ to the west ], WY, over about a month and a half...Mar 6 to April 22, 1949.
As I have always maintained, every frt car...or one of its class...crossed Sherman Hill at least once in its life. This book seems to prove that out. The variety of RRs is impressive...not unexpected for a trunk line like UP in Wyoming I suppose. One train of particular interest is one carrying only ore. I cannot actually tell if the ore carrying cars are in only one train or part of another...given the structure of the book. Anyhow, the ore carrying cars are all box cars. Perhaps most surprising is that none are UP. Roads included are SLSF, NH [ NH?], IC, NYC, CN, NP, L&N, Milw, MP, ATSF, Q, RI, NKP, KCS, CNW, SAL, and Sou and that's from a string of only 26 cars. I have not dertimined destination completely. LA-4 and SP-1 are mentioned frequently, as are numbers 2,3,5, & 6. The ore string of cars is going to Van 6. These destinations are not stations since 3 would be that for Omaha and the referenced train is westbound. Commodities are listed fairly well. For instance there are loads of wine, oil, and gasoline and associated tank cars. One strange load is milk in ATSF 6970...a box car. Naturally I had to check for the elusive N&W hopper....I can feel the crowd grow tense, sudden silence in anticipation. Here's a list of coal or coke carrying cars included in trains I've checked...about half of the 35 listed: Loads are coal unless indicated. 1. Pennsy gon G-29 359601 2. B&O gon 261628 3. MP gon 72363 4. Lackawanna gon 66057 5. NYC gon 631040 coke 6. Frisco hopper 86496 coke 7. MKT gon 41492 ***** WARNING WARNING WARNING 8. N&W gon 91097 9. N&W gon 100350 pitch Does this qualify me to win the cash prize...or bounty...offered [ or should be offered ] by certain westcoast frt car aficionados ? Well, technically, no. These are not hoppers. But, they were carrying coal. Now, if I can just figure out what destination 3 is. 10. Frisco gon 84100 11. MP gon 66850 12. MP hopper 59413 13. L&N hopper 65073 14. Lehigh Valley hopper 24613 15. Q ballast hopper 221662 16. Q comp gon 166948 17. NYC gon 711577 18. Q ballast hopper 221725 19. KCS hopper 29107 There were a few UP cars also listed as carrying coal. Note that these are all westbound except for NYC 711577. Also I expect to uncover empties coming back east. BTW, seldom are more than 2 coal carrying cars in the same train. Another perhaps oddity is a train of empties westbound consisting entirely of UP cars and Sinclair tank cars. Sinclair was/is about 7 miles east of Rawlins. I assume the train probably dropped the 60 or so Sinclair cars there. Mike Brock...more to come
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Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...>
On Mar 1, 11:48am, Mike Brock wrote:
Subject: [STMFC] UP Frt Conductor Book Data...a quick look I have not dertimined destination completely. LA-4 and SP-1 arementioned frequently, as are numbers 2,3,5, & 6. The ore string of cars is going to Van 6. These destinations are not stations since 3 would be that for Omaha and the referenced train is westbound. Espee train numbers??? Here's a list of coal or coke carrying cars included in trains I'vechecked...about half of the 35 listed: Loads are coal unless indicated.
Twelve of the 19 cars were gons, including some from eastern roads. I find this surprising even though I've been known to chant the Henrickson mantra of the West: "more gons than hoppers...more gons than hoppers". Any helium cars? You've got 7 hoppers, and we all know that Richard claims there were more helium cars than hoppers (in the West, at least). Another perhaps oddity is a train of empties westbound consistingentirely of UP cars and Sinclair tank cars. Sinclair was/is about 7 miles east of Rawlins. I assume the train probably dropped the 60 or so Sinclair cars there. Yep. This correlates pretty well with a Frt. Conductor's Train Book that I have. Mine's from ca. 1960 and most of the trains are locals to Sinclair. Almost all of the cars are tanks, with a significant portion UP (for on-line fuel, I suppose). Regards, -Jeff -- Jeff Aley, Development Engineer jaley@... Graphics Components Division Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA (916) 356-3533
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n40015@...
Mike.... this is a super find! And I'm sure you're as suprised to find the
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great range of cars in the consists as anyone. I'd like to make a trade with you. If you share the tank car data with me, I'll swap what info I can uncover regarding the L&N rolling stock. :-) Charlie Charles Dean Shelbyville, Ky.
In a message dated 3/1/1 11:51:18 AM, brockm@... writes:
<< A quick look at the UP Freight conductor's book that I recently acquired...thanks to Jeff Aley bringing it to my attention...shows some interesting stuff. First, the book contains data on 35 UP trains between Laramie and Rawlins [ to the west ], WY, over about a month and a half...Mar 6 to April 22, 1949. As I have always maintained, every frt car...or one of its class...crossed Sherman Hill at least once in its life. This book seems to prove that out. The variety of RRs is impressive...not unexpected for a trunk line like UP in Wyoming I suppose. One train of particular interest is one carrying only ore. I cannot actually tell if the ore carrying cars are in only one train or part of another...given the structure of the book. Anyhow, the ore carrying cars are all box cars. Perhaps most surprising is that none are UP. Roads included are SLSF, NH [ NH?], IC, NYC, CN, NP, L&N, Milw, MP, ATSF, Q, RI, NKP, KCS, CNW, SAL, and Sou and that's from a string of only 26 cars. I have not dertimined destination completely. LA-4 and SP-1 are mentioned frequently, as are numbers 2,3,5, & 6. The ore string of cars is going to Van 6. These destinations are not stations since 3 would be that for Omaha and the referenced train is westbound. Commodities are listed fairly well. For instance there are loads of wine, oil, and gasoline and associated tank cars. One strange load is milk in ATSF 6970...a box car. Naturally I had to check for the elusive N&W hopper....I can feel the crowd grow tense, sudden silence in anticipation. Here's a list of coal or coke carrying cars included in trains I've checked...about half of the 35 listed: Loads are coal unless indicated. 1. Pennsy gon G-29 359601 2. B&O gon 261628 3. MP gon 72363 4. Lackawanna gon 66057 5. NYC gon 631040 coke 6. Frisco hopper 86496 coke 7. MKT gon 41492 ***** WARNING WARNING WARNING 8. N&W gon 91097 9. N&W gon 100350 pitch Does this qualify me to win the cash prize...or bounty...offered [ or should be offered ] by certain westcoast frt car aficionados ? Well, technically, no. These are not hoppers. But, they were carrying coal. Now, if I can just figure out what destination 3 is. 10. Frisco gon 84100 11. MP gon 66850 12. MP hopper 59413 13. L&N hopper 65073 14. Lehigh Valley hopper 24613 15. Q ballast hopper 221662 16. Q comp gon 166948 17. NYC gon 711577 18. Q ballast hopper 221725 19. KCS hopper 29107 There were a few UP cars also listed as carrying coal. Note that these are all westbound except for NYC 711577. Also I expect to uncover empties coming back east. BTW, seldom are more than 2 coal carrying cars in the same train. Another perhaps oddity is a train of empties westbound consisting entirely of UP cars and Sinclair tank cars. Sinclair was/is about 7 miles east of Rawlins. I assume the train probably dropped the 60 or so Sinclair cars there. Mike Brock...more to come >>
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Richard Hendrickson
Jeff Aley writes, about Mike Brock's UP consist data:
Twelve of the 19 cars were gons, including some from easternI never claimed this was true "in the west," certainly not on Sherman Hill (which, as we've previously established, is only marginally in the real west), only in the Los Angeles area. And if you're going to mis-quote me, at least spell my name right. Richard H. Hendrickson Ashland, Oregon 97520
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Mike Brock <brockm@...>
I wrote:
And Jeff Aley responds with:I have not dertimined destination completely. LA-4 and SP-1 arementioned frequently, as are numbers 2,3,5, & 6. The ore string of cars is Espee train numbers???Well, not LA-4...since the UP went to LA on its own...well sort of. Sounds like SP-1 is/was. Don't know what the other numbers stood for. I wrote: Jeff answers with:Here's a list of coal or coke carrying cars included in trains I'vechecked...about half of the 35 listed: Loads are coal unless indicated. Twelve of the 19 cars were gons, including some from easternI respond: One thing that should be considered...and perhaps Richard, Tony, and others have...is that a hopper car was built to be unloaded through the rails...or turned completely over as at Norfolk and other ports. If you had a site that required a load of some kind of coal every week or two you likely would not have the facility to unload it through...and under the rails...so you might unload it with a crane...or even some poor sods with shovels.... of some kind. This might be more adapted to a gon than a deeper hopper. Just speculating of course. I'll be checking on helium loads soon....after checking on wine loads and, perhaps, sampling some myself...California varieties of course...or those from Oregon if I could find them down here. Mike Brock
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Richard Hendrickson
Mike Brock wrote:
One thing that should be considered...and perhaps Richard, Tony, and othersEarth to Mike. Tony and I (and others) have been making this point for years. Aside from the fact that coal wasn't widely used as a fuel in the western U.S., hardly any users had elevated unloading facilities; that's why the western RRs largely favored GS gondolas rather than hopper cars for bulk mineral loads. In the east as well as the west, coal was often shipped in gondolas to recipients who had no elevated trestles (that's why N&W, Clinchfield, C&O, L&N, etc. had all those gondolas) and was unloaded with clamshell buckets (which were very hard on the cars, of course) or, yes, with hand shovels powered by "Norwegian steam." There were very few places in the west where cross-hopper cars could be conveniently unloaded. Richard H. Hendrickson Ashland, Oregon 97520
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Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
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-----Original Message----- I have not dertimined destination completely. LA-4 and SP-1 are Mike, those numbers are the block id's for use at Odgen. Somewhere around here I've got an issue of the Streamliner that included a 1940 timetable that had those numbers. I'll see if I can find them. I've got 2 books from the same conductor as Mike mentions here and Tim Gilbert has another. So far I'd transcribed about 500 cars and linked them to my ORER database (as I've done with the SRR books I have). Not enough of a sample to say much, but when that question on PRR turtleback's popped up I had the answer about 15 seconds after the software loaded. For the techies: select train.Train_id, Call_Dt, Road, Car_nbr from consist, train where consist.train_id=train.train_id and consist.cb_series = orer!roster.cb_series and orer!roster.class_id='X31F'; 8-) Dave Nelson
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Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...>
On Mar 1, 10:58pm, Dave & Libby Nelson wrote:
Subject: RE: [STMFC] UP Frt Conductor Book Data...a quick look So far I'd transcribed about 500 cars and linked themenough of a sample to say much, but when that question on PRR turtleback's poppedup I had the answer about 15 seconds after the software loaded.I'm the wrong kind of techie (I'm a hardware guy), but I'll try to fake it. What about select mfr, part_number from HO_kit where HO_kit.prototype=orer!roster.class_id and orer!roster.class_id='X31F' [or something like that] ?? Regards, -Jeff -- Jeff Aley, Development Engineer jaley@... Graphics Components Division Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA (916) 356-3533
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Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
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-----Original Message----- I'm the wrong kind of techie (I'm a hardware guy), but I'll try to fakeYou got the comprehensive list of accurate models & the mapping from that list over to railroad car series numbers? I'll load it if you do. 8-) [or something like that] ??Ahh, the specificity of a true hardware guy! Causes one to reflect on the meaning of life. Dave Nelson
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