Topics

USRA DS Boxcars and "Clones"

bhom3@...
 

Hello again,

Looking for information on the following USRA Double-Sheathed boxcars
and "clones" thereof to support an installment of my "boxcar series
for the new prototype modeler":

PM 80000-81999: Lost track of this number series after the merger
with C&O. What did C&O do with these cars?

NP 10000-13999: An Al Chione photo of NP 11257 ran with Rich
Hendrickson's article in the May 1988 issue of Model Railroading. It
is captioned as a USRA DS boxcar, but NP never received an allocation
of the DS boxcars. The car in the photo appears to have 7-8 Murphy
Ends (difficult to tell from the angle of the shot) and NP's
trademark radial roof. Any more info on these cars?

UP Class B-50-13: Did any of these cars survive into the 1950s in
original form?

Thanks for the assist!


Ben Hom

Ed Workman <eworkman@...>
 

-----Original Message-----
From: bhom3@... <bhom3@...>
To: STMFC@... <STMFC@...>
Date: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 9:42 PM
Subject: [STMFC] USRA DS Boxcars and "Clones"


UP Class B-50-13: Did any of these cars survive into the 1950s in
original form?
This class is a derivative of the B50-5, an enlargement of the B50-1 of ca.
1905. Classes built for UP include B50-5 with pressed sills, B50-6
w/Bettendorf sill, B50-11 built up UF and steel ends. Basic house
dimensions and framing were common to 5 thru 13, with small differences due
to roof and end types. SP also had B50-5 and -6, and B50-9, same box on a
built up deep center sill.

Richard Hendrickson
 

Ben Hom asked:

UP Class B-50-13: Did any of these cars survive into the 1950s in
original form?
And Ed Workman replied:

This class is a derivative of the B50-5, an enlargement of the B50-1 of ca.
1905. Classes built for UP include B50-5 with pressed sills, B50-6
w/Bettendorf sill, B50-11 built up UF and steel ends. Basic house
dimensions and framing were common to 5 thru 13, with small differences due
to roof and end types. SP also had B50-5 and -6, and B50-9, same box on a
built up deep center sill.
A succinct and accurate response, but it doesn't answer Ben's question.
Most of the 2,000 B-50-13s built by AC&F and Mt. Vernon in 1922 were
rebuilt as steel sheathed B-50-17s in 1935-'36 (as were many A-50-7
automobile box cars built in the same year on the same underframes). By
1948, only 4 cars remained in the original 125900-127899 number series (by
then abbreviated to 125902-127831, so we can assume that those two numbers
were among the last survivors). Those were gone by 1950, as were almost
all of the surviving B-50-6, B-50-11, and B-50-12 class cars; UP rapidly
retired the last of its wood sheathed box and auto cars soon after the end
of WW II.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...>
 

On Jan 11, 5:42am, bhom3@... wrote:
Subject: [STMFC] USRA DS Boxcars and "Clones"
Hello again,
UP Class B-50-13: Did any of these cars survive into the 1950s in
original form?
Not beyond October 1951, at least. In the back of Metcalfe's UP Freight
Cars, there is a table of car numbers, class, and qty in October 1951,
which I assume is derived from an ORER. There are no B-50-13's listed.

If one wishes to be meticulous, I can dig up the number series, and then
we can poll the various ORER owners to see when they disappeared.

Regards,

-Jeff

--
Jeff Aley, Development Engineer jaley@...
Graphics Components Division
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533

Ed Workman <eworkman@...>
 


And Ed Workman replied:

A succinct and accurate response, but it doesn't answer Ben's question.

Yes well, I was trying to gently point out they weren't USRA based.
Might want to check Mainline Modeler too, IIRC there have been a couple of
articles on the -11 or -13. Was it an -11 that Thornton Waite found the body
of?

Richard Hendrickson
 


And Ed Workman replied:

A succinct and accurate response, but it doesn't answer Ben's question.

Yes well, I was trying to gently point out they weren't USRA based.
Mission gently accomplished, Ed.

Might want to check Mainline Modeler too, IIRC there have been a couple of
articles on the -11 or -13. Was it an -11 that Thornton Waite found the body
of?
What we really need is Terry Metcalfe's second UP freight car book, which
exists (substantially complete, I think) in MS form. His daughter, who is
a publications professional, understandably wanted to complete it after his
unfortunate and untimely death, but I understand she has now concluded that
she lacks both the time and the RR knowledge to do so and there is some
prospect that, under the guidance of Terry's long-time friend and
collaborator Bill Metzger, it will eventually be published. Let's hope so!

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

bhom3@...
 

Guys, thanks for the assist. I know that the UP cars are not USRA
derived (and it was the MM articles that prompted the question).
What I'm trying to do is to get a better picture of USRA DS "clones";
i.e., similar 40 ft DS XM. Built in the early 1920s, they share many
characteristics with the USRA design, with the major difference being
7-8 vice 5-5-5 Murphy ends. By the 7/50 ORER, the clones outnumbered
the remaining USRA allocated cars (USRA DS XM - 4676; "Clones",
including FEC VM and Wabash auto boxcar rebuilds - 6251). The UP
cars don't fit as neatly into this grouping, having 5-5-5 ends and
the proprietary underframes.

So to make a long story short, I'm trying to determine how close the
two groups of cars are to (a) see if simply substituting 7-8 Murphy
ends on an existing USRA DS XM kit is worth the effort as (b) the
feasibility of convincing Accurail to make a run of cars with the 7-8
ends as they did with their single sheathed cars.

Ben

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

Ben - Good luck, but I don't think they are going to go to that length. (Of
course, I'd like to see the inward Murphy, maybe a 7/7, on their DS car, and
then I could make believe its close enough for Rutland).
But while on the subject of Accurail, I'd think that a more likely
possibility is
1) a steel rebuild four panel sides (total 9 if you count the door as a
"panel") with the bracketted bottom sill on the SS car, and
2) a 7 panel Howe truss version with both the composite and Murphy end
and wood and steel door. (In other words, a rehash of the Train Miniature
car.)
Visually these would be a more dramatic difference than the subtle end
change. - John

----- Original Message -----
From: <bhom3@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 3:18 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: USRA DS Boxcars and "Clones"


Guys, thanks for the assist. I know that the UP cars are not USRA
derived (and it was the MM articles that prompted the question).
What I'm trying to do is to get a better picture of USRA DS "clones";
i.e., similar 40 ft DS XM. Built in the early 1920s, they share many
characteristics with the USRA design, with the major difference being
7-8 vice 5-5-5 Murphy ends. By the 7/50 ORER, the clones outnumbered
the remaining USRA allocated cars (USRA DS XM - 4676; "Clones",
including FEC VM and Wabash auto boxcar rebuilds - 6251). The UP
cars don't fit as neatly into this grouping, having 5-5-5 ends and
the proprietary underframes.

So to make a long story short, I'm trying to determine how close the
two groups of cars are to (a) see if simply substituting 7-8 Murphy
ends on an existing USRA DS XM kit is worth the effort as (b) the
feasibility of convincing Accurail to make a run of cars with the 7-8
ends as they did with their single sheathed cars.

Ben


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Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...>
 

Once, when I was in Pleasanton, I had dinner with a publisher of railroad
books. He indicated an interest in publishing the book. I think somebody
else at the table knew the Metcalfes and was going to contact them and see
if 1) the first UP book could be reprinted, and 2) if the second book
could be finished and printed.

I wonder what became of these discussions...

Regards,

-Jeff


On Jan 11, 11:36am, Richard Hendrickson wrote:

What we really need is Terry Metcalfe's second UP freight car book,
which
exists (substantially complete, I think) in MS form. His daughter, who
is
a publications professional, understandably wanted to complete it after
his
unfortunate and untimely death, but I understand she has now concluded
that
she lacks both the time and the RR knowledge to do so and there is some
prospect that, under the guidance of Terry's long-time friend and
collaborator Bill Metzger, it will eventually be published. Let's hope
so!

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@...



-- End of excerpt from Richard Hendrickson


--
Jeff Aley, Development Engineer jaley@...
Graphics Components Division
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533

byronrose@...
 

On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:18:56 -0000 bhom3@... writes:
Guys, thanks for the assist. I know that the UP cars are not USRA
derived (and it was the MM articles that prompted the question).
What I'm trying to do is to get a better picture of USRA DS
"clones";
i.e., similar 40 ft DS XM. Built in the early 1920s, they share
many
characteristics with the USRA design, with the major difference
being
7-8 vice 5-5-5 Murphy ends. By the 7/50 ORER, the clones
outnumbered
the remaining USRA allocated cars (USRA DS XM - 4676; "Clones",
including FEC VM and Wabash auto boxcar rebuilds - 6251). The UP
cars don't fit as neatly into this grouping, having 5-5-5 ends and
the proprietary underframes.

So to make a long story short, I'm trying to determine how close the

two groups of cars are to (a) see if simply substituting 7-8 Murphy
ends on an existing USRA DS XM kit is worth the effort as (b) the
feasibility of convincing Accurail to make a run of cars with the
7-8
ends as they did with their single sheathed cars.

Ben
Ben,

Unlike some of the other leaders of companies producing freight car
models, I think you'll find that Dennis is fully knowledgeable and
conversant on any freight car subject of interest to this group that you
could toss his way. If he (and probably only he) thinks he could make a
profit with it and not have too many of us holler at him, he will do it.
It may already be on his Sept release list.

BSR

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