Topics

Video: Erie Railroad Carfloat Operations in Chicago, 1920


Bob Chaparro
 

Video: Erie Railroad Carfloat Operations in Chicago, 1920

https://youtu.be/eHCJPMATXrk

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Bill J.
 

Side rod diesels in the 1920s?!

This is a precious piece of film.

Bill Jolitz


Donald B. Valentine
 

Stumbled onto this video when taking a break for a moment this morning and agree, it is well worth watching having an actual date and place. I was surprised to find an Erie carfloat operation n Chicago

but there it is on a river with the continuous opening of several different types of drawbridge and diminutive tow boats that make those used on the Champlain Canal look large.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine

 


Eric Hansmann
 

It seems there’s a Western Pacific boxcar on this float that is the prototype of the resin parts Andy Carlson was recently selling. It’s at the 2:20 mark.

https://youtu.be/eHCJPMATXrk

 

Is that a circular Feather River Route emblem on the right side of the car?

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 2:55 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Video: Erie Railroad Carfloat Operations in Chicago, 1920

 

Stumbled onto this video when taking a break for a moment this morning and agree, it is well worth watching having an actual date and place. I was surprised to find an Erie carfloat operation n Chicago

but there it is on a river with the continuous opening of several different types of drawbridge and diminutive tow boats that make those used on the Champlain Canal look large.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine

 


Kenneth Montero
 

At the beginning of the film, the bottom edge of the door on the Rock Island car was ragged. I don't recall anyone modeling that feature, even on heavily-weathered boxcars with wood doors.

Ken Montero

On 10/12/2020 12:30 PM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:


It seems there’s a Western Pacific boxcar on this float that is the prototype of the resin parts Andy Carlson was recently selling. It’s at the 2:20 mark.

https://youtu.be/eHCJPMATXrk


Is that a circular Feather River Route emblem on the right side of the car?



Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN






From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 2:55 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Video: Erie Railroad Carfloat Operations in Chicago, 1920


Stumbled onto this video when taking a break for a moment this morning and agree, it is well worth watching having an actual date and place. I was surprised to find an Erie carfloat operation n Chicago

but there it is on a river with the continuous opening of several different types of drawbridge and diminutive tow boats that make those used on the Champlain Canal look large.


Cordially, Don Valentine




Eric Hansmann
 

I like the sheet metal covering some siding adjacent to the door. This shows up when the door is closed.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenneth Montero
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 12:02 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Video: Erie Railroad Carfloat Operations in Chicago, 1920

 

At the beginning of the film, the bottom edge of the door on the Rock Island car was ragged. I don't recall anyone modeling that feature, even on heavily-weathered boxcars with wood doors.

 

Ken Montero

On 10/12/2020 12:30 PM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

 

 

It seems there’s a Western Pacific boxcar on this float that is the prototype of the resin parts Andy Carlson was recently selling. It’s at the 2:20 mark.

https://youtu.be/eHCJPMATXrk

 

Is that a circular Feather River Route emblem on the right side of the car?

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 2:55 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Video: Erie Railroad Carfloat Operations in Chicago, 1920

 

Stumbled onto this video when taking a break for a moment this morning and agree, it is well worth watching having an actual date and place. I was surprised to find an Erie carfloat operation n Chicago

but there it is on a river with the continuous opening of several different types of drawbridge and diminutive tow boats that make those used on the Champlain Canal look large.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine

 

 


Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Eric,

Yes, that indeed is a car from WP series 15001-16000, built by Pullman in 1916. Most of these were rebuilt before WWII, emerging as stock cars, MW cars and cabooses. The survivors were renumbered 26001-26125, and mostly used in bulk plaster service out of Gerlach, Nevada. A few survived in original condition into the 1960s.

And yes, the round herald was standard on most WP cars at the time of the film. Attached is an example from the 16001-series boxcars (sorry it's a bit fuzzy). The more familiar rectangular herald appeared around 1930, first as an enameled metal plate on locomotives and then spread to freight cars, both painted occasionally as a metal plate.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 12:30 PM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

It seems there’s a Western Pacific boxcar on this float that is the prototype of the resin parts Andy Carlson was recently selling. It’s at the 2:20 mark.

https://youtu.be/eHCJPMATXrk

 

Is that a circular Feather River Route emblem on the right side of the car?

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 2:55 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Video: Erie Railroad Carfloat Operations in Chicago, 1920

 

Stumbled onto this video when taking a break for a moment this morning and agree, it is well worth watching having an actual date and place. I was surprised to find an Erie carfloat operation n Chicago

but there it is on a river with the continuous opening of several different types of drawbridge and diminutive tow boats that make those used on the Champlain Canal look large.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine

 


Andy Carlson
 

Here is a drawing made by the late Al Armitage of the WP car in early lettering scheme.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA
Inline image

On Monday, October 12, 2020, 9:30:10 AM PDT, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:


It seems there’s a Western Pacific boxcar on this float that is the prototype of the resin parts Andy Carlson was recently selling. It’s at the 2:20 mark.

https://youtu.be/eHCJPMATXrk

 

Is that a circular Feather River Route emblem on the right side of the car?

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

_._,_._,_


Mansell Peter Hambly
 

Are there any decals that are like this? Thank you.

 

Mansell Peter Hambly

COQUITLAM, B.C.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Andy Carlson
Sent: October 12, 2020 11:17 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Video: Erie Railroad Carfloat Operations in Chicago, 1920

 

Here is a drawing made by the late Al Armitage of the WP car in early lettering scheme.

-Andy Carlson

Ojai CA

On Monday, October 12, 2020, 9:30:10 AM PDT, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

 

 

It seems there’s a Western Pacific boxcar on this float that is the prototype of the resin parts Andy Carlson was recently selling. It’s at the 2:20 mark.

https://youtu.be/eHCJPMATXrk

 

Is that a circular Feather River Route emblem on the right side of the car?

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

 


staplindave
 

Anybody know where the Erie car float went from and too in Chicago?  Was it meant to sort cut the terminal railroads?

Dave Staplin


Jack Mullen
 

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 01:56 PM, staplindave wrote:
Anybody know where the Erie car float went from and too in Chicago?  Was it meant to sort cut the terminal railroads?
From the Erie on the South Branch of the Chicago River at about 18th St., to freight houses on the North Branch at Erie St. (appropriately) and Webster St.  Later also to North Pier Terminal at the river's mouth.  The operation gave Erie access to the north side for merchandise service, and lasted until c.1936.  The Baldwin gas-mechanicals handled the north side termini.

The operation gets a few pages in Hilton's classic The Great Lakes Car Ferries.

Jack Mullen


Charlie Vlk
 

Dave and All-

The Erie had a freight house at 14th & Clark Street on the east bank of the south branch of the Chicago River which was south of the passenger terminals and the main business district of Chicago.

Prior to establishing their car float transfer on the river the railroad had to hand over all their LCL traffic to teamsters or the Chicago Tunnel System.   There is was direct route from the south side on the east side of the Chicago River to the north except via the terminal railroads.

The Erie established a car float connecting to their tracks at 14th & Clark streets near their freight house and on the north branch of the Chicago River at Kingsbury & Erie Streets had a CMSP&P connection and Webster Street which had a connection to the C&NW.     There was also a dock at Market Street & Washington on the south branch adjacent to the downtown area.

It is likely that the Kingsbury Street facility was used primarily to receive and deliver LCL to the nearby catalog centers of Sears and Montgomery Wards.

It and the Webster Street facility further north could accommodate carloads to and from industries served by the CMSP&P & C&NW.  The service was successful and cut days off of the handling of cars to and from the north side for the Erie.

The Erie’s Chicago River car float operation lasted from 1913 to 1938 .

The above information was gleaned from Erie Railroad Historical Society articles which include maps, drawings of the car float depots and the gas mechanical switcher(s).

There was a direct rail link between the IC/MC and C&NW over a swing bridge at the mouth of the Chicago River but little is known about it (at least by this researcher) but the pressure of river traffic caused its removal at some point.

While there was the St. Charles Air Line which served as an important early transfer link between the IC/MC and CB&Q/G&CU (C&NW) its importance as a interchange line dwindled as switching yards moved out of Chicago (Hawthorne and the Q, Proviso on the C&NW, Markham on the IC, Bensenville on the MILW, etc.) and the terminal roads took over the interchange traffic.

Charlie Vlk

 

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of staplindave via groups.io
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 3:57 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Video: Erie Railroad Carfloat Operations in Chicago, 1920

 

Anybody know where the Erie car float went from and too in Chicago?  Was it meant to sort cut the terminal railroads?

 

Dave Staplin


Steve and Barb Hile
 

Between 1926 and 1929 the south branch of the Chicago River was straightened in a massive project that was supposed to improve road traffic flow south of the Loop and give the railroads more space on the east side of the river.  There is an aerial photo of the project at

 

http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/10583.html

 

that can be zoomed.

 

The Erie freight house is in the lower right hand quadrant, south and east from the large Rock Island terminal elevator.

 

 

What I can’t figure out is where the Erie car float was in relation to the freight house.  There is one track from the area of the freight house that curves around toward the river, passing under Clark Street (I guess) and numerous RR bridges.  Perhaps it is right there in the lower corner of the photo.

 

Looking a little further south, I do see what looks like the Erie car float.

 

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Charlie Vlk
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 8:09 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Video: Erie Railroad Carfloat Operations in Chicago, 1920

 

Dave and All-

The Erie had a freight house at 14th & Clark Street on the east bank of the south branch of the Chicago River which was south of the passenger terminals and the main business district of Chicago.

Prior to establishing their car float transfer on the river the railroad had to hand over all their LCL traffic to teamsters or the Chicago Tunnel System.   There is was direct route from the south side on the east side of the Chicago River to the north except via the terminal railroads.

The Erie established a car float connecting to their tracks at 14th & Clark streets near their freight house and on the north branch of the Chicago River at Kingsbury & Erie Streets had a CMSP&P connection and Webster Street which had a connection to the C&NW.     There was also a dock at Market Street & Washington on the south branch adjacent to the downtown area.

It is likely that the Kingsbury Street facility was used primarily to receive and deliver LCL to the nearby catalog centers of Sears and Montgomery Wards.

It and the Webster Street facility further north could accommodate carloads to and from industries served by the CMSP&P & C&NW.  The service was successful and cut days off of the handling of cars to and from the north side for the Erie.

The Erie’s Chicago River car float operation lasted from 1913 to 1938 .

The above information was gleaned from Erie Railroad Historical Society articles which include maps, drawings of the car float depots and the gas mechanical switcher(s).

There was a direct rail link between the IC/MC and C&NW over a swing bridge at the mouth of the Chicago River but little is known about it (at least by this researcher) but the pressure of river traffic caused its removal at some point.

While there was the St. Charles Air Line which served as an important early transfer link between the IC/MC and CB&Q/G&CU (C&NW) its importance as a interchange line dwindled as switching yards moved out of Chicago (Hawthorne and the Q, Proviso on the C&NW, Markham on the IC, Bensenville on the MILW, etc.) and the terminal roads took over the interchange traffic.

Charlie Vlk

 

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of staplindave via groups.io
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 3:57 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Video: Erie Railroad Carfloat Operations in Chicago, 1920

 

Anybody know where the Erie car float went from and too in Chicago?  Was it meant to sort cut the terminal railroads?

 

Dave Staplin


Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Steve,

The Sanborn maps would probably tell you what you need. Another possible source is the War Department's "Ports Series" about all the major US ports. These volumes included fairly detailed maps of railroad facilities in the port areas, and certainly would have highlighted any car float bridges. Since my retirement from the UVA Library, I have lost access to both these sources, but maybe you or someone here could check in your area. The Ports Series would most likely be found in a US Government Depository Library (two per state, and usually at a major university or the state library).

By the way, the Ports Series is still being issued, now by the DoD. Usually these volumes are updated every 4-6 years. They are a great source of information on rail traffic, at least as far as trackage around the port areas. My interest was in the volumes covering Sacramento in the 1950s, which had nifty fold-out track maps.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 10:35 PM Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...> wrote:

Between 1926 and 1929 the south branch of the Chicago River was straightened in a massive project that was supposed to improve road traffic flow south of the Loop and give the railroads more space on the east side of the river.  There is an aerial photo of the project at

 

http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/10583.html

 

that can be zoomed.

 

The Erie freight house is in the lower right hand quadrant, south and east from the large Rock Island terminal elevator.

 

 

What I can’t figure out is where the Erie car float was in relation to the freight house.  There is one track from the area of the freight house that curves around toward the river, passing under Clark Street (I guess) and numerous RR bridges.  Perhaps it is right there in the lower corner of the photo.

 

Looking a little further south, I do see what looks like the Erie car float.

 

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Charlie Vlk
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 8:09 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Video: Erie Railroad Carfloat Operations in Chicago, 1920

 

Dave and All-

The Erie had a freight house at 14th & Clark Street on the east bank of the south branch of the Chicago River which was south of the passenger terminals and the main business district of Chicago.

Prior to establishing their car float transfer on the river the railroad had to hand over all their LCL traffic to teamsters or the Chicago Tunnel System.   There is was direct route from the south side on the east side of the Chicago River to the north except via the terminal railroads.

The Erie established a car float connecting to their tracks at 14th & Clark streets near their freight house and on the north branch of the Chicago River at Kingsbury & Erie Streets had a CMSP&P connection and Webster Street which had a connection to the C&NW.     There was also a dock at Market Street & Washington on the south branch adjacent to the downtown area.

It is likely that the Kingsbury Street facility was used primarily to receive and deliver LCL to the nearby catalog centers of Sears and Montgomery Wards.

It and the Webster Street facility further north could accommodate carloads to and from industries served by the CMSP&P & C&NW.  The service was successful and cut days off of the handling of cars to and from the north side for the Erie.

The Erie’s Chicago River car float operation lasted from 1913 to 1938 .

The above information was gleaned from Erie Railroad Historical Society articles which include maps, drawings of the car float depots and the gas mechanical switcher(s).

There was a direct rail link between the IC/MC and C&NW over a swing bridge at the mouth of the Chicago River but little is known about it (at least by this researcher) but the pressure of river traffic caused its removal at some point.

While there was the St. Charles Air Line which served as an important early transfer link between the IC/MC and CB&Q/G&CU (C&NW) its importance as a interchange line dwindled as switching yards moved out of Chicago (Hawthorne and the Q, Proviso on the C&NW, Markham on the IC, Bensenville on the MILW, etc.) and the terminal roads took over the interchange traffic.

Charlie Vlk

 

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of staplindave via groups.io
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 3:57 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Video: Erie Railroad Carfloat Operations in Chicago, 1920

 

Anybody know where the Erie car float went from and too in Chicago?  Was it meant to sort cut the terminal railroads?

 

Dave Staplin


schmuck804_99@...
 


schmuck804_99@...
 


Steve and Barb Hile
 

Very interesting.  Thanks!

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of schmuck804_99 via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 5:02 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Video: Erie Railroad Carfloat Operations in Chicago, 1920

 

http://www.jon-n-bevliles.net/RAILROAD/articles/ra-v63-n18b.pdf

Chris