Water-Base Clear Flat Coating


Charles Greene
 

I'm decaling a tank car and will be airbrushing it with a clear flat coating to kill the gloss. I've used Model Master clear flat acrylic, but it results in a slight milky look, especially over dark colors, like the "pavement" (dark gray) shade on this car. One recommendation I found on a military modelers site was AK Interactive's ultra matte varnish. Another I found via Google is Minwax Polycrylic Clear Ultra Flat polyurethane. Both are water-base which I prefer over solvent-base types. The AK coating is kind of expensive at $12/2ozs. whereas the Minwax is $12/8ozs. Anybody use either one of these? Results? Preferences? Other suggestions?

Chuck Greene
St. Charles, IL 
  


Scott
 

Check out Lucky Varnish from Ammo by Mig and Mission models flats.  Both work really well.  Always practice on some astic spoons or something before putting on model.

Scott McDonald 


Kevin Macomber
 

Can you tell me more? The word 'varnish' means something quite unique and don't think of it for models.

Kevin

On 2022-06-14 01:41, Scott wrote:
Check out Lucky Varnish from Ammo by Mig and Mission models flats.
Both work really well. Always practice on some astic spoons or
something before putting on model.
Scott McDonald
Links:
------
[1] https://RealSTMFC.groups.io/g/main/message/193336
[2] https://groups.io/mt/91736959/645454
[3] https://RealSTMFC.groups.io/g/main/post
[4] https://RealSTMFC.groups.io/g/main/editsub/645454
[5] https://RealSTMFC.groups.io/g/main/leave/11334620/645454/765963421/xyzzy
--
Kevin Macomber
NGMC
(717) 474-8399
www.narrowgaugemodeling.com


loumickie
 

I use Tamiya Clear Flat XF-86 thinned with Mr. Color Leveling Thinner. Dries flat and then you can go over it with oil washes without any issues. Here's a quick example that I just sprayed...


Joseph
 

VMS from Michigan Toy Soldier is also very good.  Plus it is from Poland!
Joe Binish(Bincz)

On Tue, Jun 14, 2022 at 9:10 AM loumickie <loumickie@...> wrote:
I use Tamiya Clear Flat XF-86 thinned with Mr. Color Leveling Thinner. Dries flat and then you can go over it with oil washes without any issues. Here's a quick example that I just sprayed...


Ken Adams
 

I tried some Vallejo 70.520 Matte Varnish yesterday for covering some chalk mark decals added over previous weathering washes and would not recommend it  Now going back to rattle can Tamiya TS-80 clear flat. 

I will lightly dust Bragdon Enterprises light beige weathering powder over that clear flat coat when dry. That usually kills any remaining sheen.  I haven't tried the light "Israeli Sand" powders from Vallejo or AK yet.  I'll have to experiment for back ups just in case I loose the Bragdon powders supply.  These days one has to be prepared in case a small US manufacturer in this case, I think a family business disappears suddenly. 

--
Ken Adams
Omicron BA2.2 may come and go but I still live mostly in splendid Shelter In Place solitude
Location: About half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io


Scott
 

 
 Kevin, the armored modelers seem to use "Varnish" as a generic term for all the clear coats.  It's not wood working varnish if that's what you are thinking. 

Scott McDonald


Charles Greene
 

Ok...thanks to all for suggestions. I hadn't heard about most of these other products.

Chuck Greene
St. Charles, IL


John Sykes III
 

Varnish is a generic term for transparent finishes, originally used on wood surfaces such as floors or boat decks.  Traditional varnish was made up of a mixture of phenolic resins (rosin) an oil, such as linseed oil, a drying oil (Japan drier), and cut with a solvent, such as turpentine, to thin the varnish for brushing or spraying.  These traditional varnishes yellow and crack with age.  Modern varnishes use synthetic resins (alkyd, polyurethane, etc.) and mineral spirits or water as a solvent.  Varnish is normally high gloss.  Matte and flat varnishes usually have diatomaceous earth added to get the desired degree of “flatness” (if that’s a word).  The side effect is that the diatomaceous earth can make the finish look cloudy if a poor-quality product, or too much product is added to the varnish.  Also, solvent-based varnishes do tend to yellow with age, water-based varnishes generally do not.


Kevin Macomber
 

Thank you. I knew the results but not the chemistry!!

On 2022-06-15 12:32, John Sykes III via groups.io wrote:
Varnish is a generic term for transparent finishes, originally used on
wood surfaces such as floors or boat decks. Traditional varnish was
made up of a mixture of phenolic resins (rosin) an oil, such as
linseed oil, a drying oil (Japan drier), and cut with a solvent, such
as turpentine, to thin the varnish for brushing or spraying. These
traditional varnishes yellow and crack with age. Modern varnishes use
synthetic resins (alkyd, polyurethane, etc.) and mineral spirits or
water as a solvent. Varnish is normally high gloss. Matte and flat
varnishes usually have diatomaceous earth added to get the desired
degree of “flatness” (if that’s a word). The side effect is
that the diatomaceous earth can make the finish look cloudy if a
poor-quality product, or too much product is added to the varnish.
Also, solvent-based varnishes do tend to yellow with age, water-based
varnishes generally do not.
Links:
------
[1] https://RealSTMFC.groups.io/g/main/message/193359
[2] https://groups.io/mt/91736959/645454
[3] https://RealSTMFC.groups.io/g/main/post
[4] https://RealSTMFC.groups.io/g/main/editsub/645454
[5] https://RealSTMFC.groups.io/g/main/leave/11334620/645454/765963421/xyzzy
--
Kevin Macomber
NGMC
(717) 474-8399
www.narrowgaugemodeling.com


Ted Larson
 

In other parts of my life I do NOT hearr varnish being used generically 
So I would be cautious about doing so.  
Too much risk of misinterpretation.  




--
Ted Larson
Trainweb.org/MHRR   ---   GN in 1965   ---   NASG.org 


Fred Jansz
 

Spanish paint brand Vallejo calls it varnish; mat, satin and gloss. I use (slightly thinned+flow improver) satin for most of my models, which turns out near flat. When I want a fraction more shine I add a few drops of their gloss medium 70.470 and mix well. As said: test on plastic spoons or old plastic boxcar first
Fred Jansz


Charles Greene
 

I received several suggestions for a water-base flat coating for killing gloss after decaling, or otherwise, that wouldn't cause the slightly milky appearance that Model Master clear flat acrylic coating leaves, especially on dark colors. I noted that most, if not all, the suggested coatings were about $6/oz. Prior to my original post I had looked around and found Minwax Polycrylic Crystal Clear Topcoat (Clear Ultra Flat) which is $1.50/oz. None of the responders had tried it so I gave it a shot and found it to give a very good result. It's water-based, really flat, as claimed by the manufacturer, and doesn't leave any milky, or other, residue. I got the 8 oz. (smallest I could find) can for $12, but I think there are larger quantities which cost less per ounce (the 8 oz. size will last me a long time, though, since I dilute it to run it through an airbrush). It's intended for a different purpose (on wood furniture), but then so is Pledge floor gloss which many use for decal prep. 

Chuck Greene
St. Charles, IL


Tim O'Connor
 

Chuck

That's really good to know ! When I finally run out of my Floquil Clear Flat (not Glaze!)
it sounds like Minwax to the rescue ! And unlike the Floquil colors, the flat dries quickly
overnight after which the car can be handled without problems.



On 6/27/2022 5:06 PM, Charles Greene wrote:
I received several suggestions for a water-base flat coating for killing gloss after decaling, or otherwise, that wouldn't cause the slightly milky appearance that Model Master clear flat acrylic coating leaves, especially on dark colors. I noted that most, if not all, the suggested coatings were about $6/oz. Prior to my original post I had looked around and found Minwax Polycrylic Crystal Clear Topcoat (Clear Ultra Flat) which is $1.50/oz. None of the responders had tried it so I gave it a shot and found it to give a very good result. It's water-based, really flat, as claimed by the manufacturer, and doesn't leave any milky, or other, residue. I got the 8 oz. (smallest I could find) can for $12, but I think there are larger quantities which cost less per ounce (the 8 oz. size will last me a long time, though, since I dilute it to run it through an airbrush). It's intended for a different purpose (on wood furniture), but then so is Pledge floor gloss which many use for decal prep. 

Chuck Greene

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts