West India Fruit US bound lading
Obviously fruit, but what sorts? Bananas/pineapple? Vegetables? Bulk sugar?
Tobacco in box cars, for sure. Maybe even cigars! Bagged sugar is certainly possible. And perhaps forest products (tropical wood).
On 2/20/2023 5:31 PM, Robert G P wrote:
Hello everyone,
Might have been discussed before and I apologize if this is a repetition.
Anyway, I am curious about what sort of lading would be found in West India Fruit boxcars and reefers that were sent out of Cuba and billed for points in the US?
Obviously fruit, but what sorts? Bananas/pineapple? Vegetables? Bulk sugar?
I have a WIF car which I pretend carries Palm Oil to a soap manufacturing company. Is this accurate? What about tobacco to a cigarette/cigar firm? I know a lot of tobacco was produced stateside in that era so is this plausible?
Surely there was a decent amount of Cuba-US freight or WIF wouldnt have invested in a boxcar fleet. Unless of course the fleet was intended to primarily be transloaded cars to keep US cars on US soil. Transloading freight at WIF ports from US cars to their own and sent on the ferries. It must be noted though that archive footage proves US cars went down into Cuba though.
This raises another question, would the state owned Cuban Railways pay per diem to US companies? Wonder how many US cars were left in Cuba after ties were cut. Lastly, I dont think any Cuban cars ever came here, but I suppose it couldve happened.
Thanks,Rob Perez
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Jack Mullen
Cargo carried to Cuba included LCL freight, manufactured goods, chemicals, lard, railway equipment, temperate zone fruit such as apples, pears and grapes, meat, dairy, steel products and machinery.
WIF cars in Cuba were taken directly to their destinations by Cuban railways but the evidence suggests there was almost no if any Cuban railcars coming to the States. Bob Weston
A Wikipedia search shows the following cargo carried from Cuba to the United States: tobacco, refined sugar, pineapples, rum, tomatoes, slaughterhouse by products and scrap metal.
Cargo carried to Cuba included LCL freight, manufactured goods, chemicals, lard, railway equipment, temperate zone fruit such as apples, pears and grapes, meat, dairy, steel products and machinery.
WIF cars in Cuba were taken directly to their destinations by Cuban railways but the evidence suggests there was almost no if any Cuban railcars coming to the States. Bob Weston
Ahem. From my own image files -- WIF box cars photographed in Philadelphia PA, Oakland CA, Topeka KS, Vancouver, BC.
This one (attached) from the Cornell collection -- Taylor Yard, Los Angeles, 1960.
On 2/21/2023 6:40 AM, Bob Weston via groups.io wrote:
A Wikipedia search shows the following cargo carried from Cuba to the United States: tobacco, refined sugar, pineapples, rum, tomatoes, slaughterhouse by products and scrap metal. Cargo carried to Cuba included LCL freight, manufactured goods, chemicals, lard, railway equipment, temperate zone fruit such as apples, pears and grapes, meat, dairy, steel products and machinery. WIF cars in Cuba were taken directly to their destinations by Cuban railways but the evidence suggests there was almost no if any Cuban railcars coming to the States. Bob Weston
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
First, a little about the company. Its forerunner, Seatrain Lines (the operating name for the Over-Seas Shipping Company) began intermodal container shipping by using entire loaded rail cars between ports in the United States and Havana, Cuba, with the first shipment in December 1928 aboard a specially designed ship, Seatrain. This original ship, later renamed Seatrain New Orleans, was capable of carrying 95 fully loaded rail cars.
The company built two larger specialized ships in 1932, Seatrain New York and Seatrain Havana with greater rail car capacity. In 1939 two more ships were under construction at Sun Shipbuilding and Dry Dock Company, Chester, Pennsylvania, Seatrain Texas and Seatrain New Jersey.
The original 1928 shipment aboard Seatrain caused a labor issue that foretold similar issues later with container ships when Cuban stevedores demanded that they not only unload the rail cars from the ship but unload and repack the rail car contents before turning the cars over to Cuban railways.
In 1951 Seatrain Lines returned to Sun Shipbuilding for two additional railcar carriers, the Seatrain Georgia and Seatrain Louisiana. That year Seatrain also ceased operations to and from Cuba, and renamed its ship Seatrain Havana to Seatrain Savannah to reflect the suspension of service. In 1953 Seatrain sold its operating authority to trade between the US and Cuba to the West India Fruit and Steamship Company, along with its first ship, the Seatrain New Orleans, which was renamed Sea Level.
The West India Fruit & Steamship Company operated a railcar ferry service between the Port of Palm Beach, Florida, and Havana, Cuba, from 1946 until worsening relations with the Castro government resulted in a trade embargo by the United States in 1960. I model 1956 so no problem. The company had boxcars and refrigerator cars in its fleet.
Upon further research I discovered that the company also ferried freight cars to New Orleans. By the middle 1950s, up to eighty railroad cars each way per day were being transferred between the United States and Cuba. Inbound freight to the U.S. included tobacco, refined sugar, pineapples, rum, tomatoes, slaughterhouse byproducts, and scrap metal. Cuban bound freight included less-than-carload merchandise, manufactured goods, chemicals, lard, railway equipment, temperate zone fruit such as apples, pears, and grapes, meat, dairy, steel products, and machinery.
These cars traveled all over. Here are photos of boxcars WIF 321 and WIF 106 in Vancouver, British Columbia:
And more research determined their freight cars did indeed travel to Oakland and Southern California. I even found a photograph of one of their cars in Los Angeles at a Southern Pacific yard:
https://digital.library.cornell.edu/catalog/ss:20988463
The boxcar (WIF 233) is just behind the two tank cars. Also notice the Canadian Pacific eight-hatch meat reefer (CP 283285) to the right.
Yet another car, this time in Philadelphia:
Another car was seen in Sudbury, ON, according to Pierre Oliver. His Elgin Car Shops model:
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
WOW!
Thanks!
--
Brian Ehni
From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Tuesday, February 21, 2023 at 10:50 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] West India Fruit US bound lading
Matt Herson spotted this Cuban box car in Mexico, after the revolution
--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Paul Doggett. England 🏴
On 21 Feb 2023, at 16:35, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:
First, a little about the company. Its forerunner, Seatrain Lines (the operating name for the Over-Seas Shipping Company) began intermodal container shipping by using entire loaded rail cars between ports in the United States and Havana, Cuba, with the first shipment in December 1928 aboard a specially designed ship, Seatrain. This original ship, later renamed Seatrain New Orleans, was capable of carrying 95 fully loaded rail cars.
The company built two larger specialized ships in 1932, Seatrain New York and Seatrain Havana with greater rail car capacity. In 1939 two more ships were under construction at Sun Shipbuilding and Dry Dock Company, Chester, Pennsylvania, Seatrain Texas and Seatrain New Jersey.
The original 1928 shipment aboard Seatrain caused a labor issue that foretold similar issues later with container ships when Cuban stevedores demanded that they not only unload the rail cars from the ship but unload and repack the rail car contents before turning the cars over to Cuban railways.
In 1951 Seatrain Lines returned to Sun Shipbuilding for two additional railcar carriers, the Seatrain Georgia and Seatrain Louisiana. That year Seatrain also ceased operations to and from Cuba, and renamed its ship Seatrain Havana to Seatrain Savannah to reflect the suspension of service. In 1953 Seatrain sold its operating authority to trade between the US and Cuba to the West India Fruit and Steamship Company, along with its first ship, the Seatrain New Orleans, which was renamed Sea Level.
The West India Fruit & Steamship Company operated a railcar ferry service between the Port of Palm Beach, Florida, and Havana, Cuba, from 1946 until worsening relations with the Castro government resulted in a trade embargo by the United States in 1960. I model 1956 so no problem. The company had boxcars and refrigerator cars in its fleet.
Upon further research I discovered that the company also ferried freight cars to New Orleans. By the middle 1950s, up to eighty railroad cars each way per day were being transferred between the United States and Cuba. Inbound freight to the U.S. included tobacco, refined sugar, pineapples, rum, tomatoes, slaughterhouse byproducts, and scrap metal. Cuban bound freight included less-than-carload merchandise, manufactured goods, chemicals, lard, railway equipment, temperate zone fruit such as apples, pears, and grapes, meat, dairy, steel products, and machinery.
These cars traveled all over. Here are photos of boxcars WIF 321 and WIF 106 in Vancouver, British Columbia:
And more research determined their freight cars did indeed travel to Oakland and Southern California. I even found a photograph of one of their cars in Los Angeles at a Southern Pacific yard:
https://digital.library.cornell.edu/catalog/ss:20988463
The boxcar (WIF 233) is just behind the two tank cars. Also notice the Canadian Pacific eight-hatch meat reefer (CP 283285) to the right.
Yet another car, this time in Philadelphia:
Another car was seen in Sudbury, ON, according to Pierre Oliver. His Elgin Car Shops model:
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
An update on the photo information. Photo was taken at Santa Clara, Santa Clara, Cuba 3-28-81. Car was built for Ferrocarriles Consolidados de Cuba not WIF.
Matt Herson
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2023 11:50 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] West India Fruit US bound lading
Matt Herson spotted this Cuban box car in Mexico, after the revolution
--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
I'm fairly sure that Bacardi Rum and others like Havana Club were distilled in Cuba and shipped to the US during that period.
George Courtney
Fascinating stuff! And Tim, that FC Cuban boxcar is the only photo Ive seen of one outside of Cuba! Ive wondered what sorts of cars they had and even if any unique cars operated on the Mexican standard gauge rail systems.The Cuban car says "Azucar Refin' I think, which is a way of saying "sugar refining" in Spanish. I cant make out anything else legible on it. That pic is a true gem. It begs the question of how/why in the world was the car in Mexico? I would never believe Mexico imported sugar from Cuba. As sugar is a huge Mexican crop too. The car could've been left here in the US, and to get it moving perhaps it was billed to Mexico due to the Spanish decals? Certainly odd, and since after the revolution, that could mean that it indeed was a Cuban car which was sent up here stateside via WIF (answering that "did it happen" with a Cuban car).I know of no car ferry that ran from Cuba to Mexico, so that car had to have passed through the Southeast US.I like the ex-Erie car a lot.Thanks again,Rob PI'm fairly sure that Bacardi Rum and others like Havana Club were distilled in Cuba and shipped to the US during that period.
George Courtney
Great build of a very distinctive car.
Gary Laakso
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2023 9:08 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] West India Fruit US bound lading
Here’s my Speedwitch models WIF car ex Erie RR
Paul Doggett. England 🏴
On 21 Feb 2023, at 16:35, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:
First, a little about the company. Its forerunner, Seatrain Lines (the operating name for the Over-Seas Shipping Company) began intermodal container shipping by using entire loaded rail cars between ports in the United States and Havana, Cuba, with the first shipment in December 1928 aboard a specially designed ship, Seatrain. This original ship, later renamed Seatrain New Orleans, was capable of carrying 95 fully loaded rail cars.
The company built two larger specialized ships in 1932, Seatrain New York and Seatrain Havana with greater rail car capacity. In 1939 two more ships were under construction at Sun Shipbuilding and Dry Dock Company, Chester, Pennsylvania, Seatrain Texas and Seatrain New Jersey.
The original 1928 shipment aboard Seatrain caused a labor issue that foretold similar issues later with container ships when Cuban stevedores demanded that they not only unload the rail cars from the ship but unload and repack the rail car contents before turning the cars over to Cuban railways.
In 1951 Seatrain Lines returned to Sun Shipbuilding for two additional railcar carriers, the Seatrain Georgia and Seatrain Louisiana. That year Seatrain also ceased operations to and from Cuba, and renamed its ship Seatrain Havana to Seatrain Savannah to reflect the suspension of service. In 1953 Seatrain sold its operating authority to trade between the US and Cuba to the West India Fruit and Steamship Company, along with its first ship, the Seatrain New Orleans, which was renamed Sea Level.
The West India Fruit & Steamship Company operated a railcar ferry service between the Port of Palm Beach, Florida, and Havana, Cuba, from 1946 until worsening relations with the Castro government resulted in a trade embargo by the United States in 1960. I model 1956 so no problem. The company had boxcars and refrigerator cars in its fleet.
Upon further research I discovered that the company also ferried freight cars to New Orleans. By the middle 1950s, up to eighty railroad cars each way per day were being transferred between the United States and Cuba. Inbound freight to the U.S. included tobacco, refined sugar, pineapples, rum, tomatoes, slaughterhouse byproducts, and scrap metal. Cuban bound freight included less-than-carload merchandise, manufactured goods, chemicals, lard, railway equipment, temperate zone fruit such as apples, pears, and grapes, meat, dairy, steel products, and machinery.
These cars traveled all over. Here are photos of boxcars WIF 321 and WIF 106 in Vancouver, British Columbia:
And more research determined their freight cars did indeed travel to Oakland and Southern California. I even found a photograph of one of their cars in Los Angeles at a Southern Pacific yard:
https://digital.library.cornell.edu/catalog/ss:20988463
The boxcar (WIF 233) is just behind the two tank cars. Also notice the Canadian Pacific eight-hatch meat reefer (CP 283285) to the right.
Yet another car, this time in Philadelphia:
Another car was seen in Sudbury, ON, according to Pierre Oliver. His Elgin Car Shops model:
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
Gary
On 22 Feb 2023, at 13:23, gary laakso <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:
Great build of a very distinctive car.
Gary Laakso
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul Doggett via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2023 9:08 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] West India Fruit US bound lading
Here’s my Speedwitch models WIF car ex Erie RR
<image001.jpg>
<image002.jpg>
Paul Doggett. England 🏴
On 21 Feb 2023, at 16:35, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:
First, a little about the company. Its forerunner, Seatrain Lines (the operating name for the Over-Seas Shipping Company) began intermodal container shipping by using entire loaded rail cars between ports in the United States and Havana, Cuba, with the first shipment in December 1928 aboard a specially designed ship, Seatrain. This original ship, later renamed Seatrain New Orleans, was capable of carrying 95 fully loaded rail cars.
The company built two larger specialized ships in 1932, Seatrain New York and Seatrain Havana with greater rail car capacity. In 1939 two more ships were under construction at Sun Shipbuilding and Dry Dock Company, Chester, Pennsylvania, Seatrain Texas and Seatrain New Jersey.
The original 1928 shipment aboard Seatrain caused a labor issue that foretold similar issues later with container ships when Cuban stevedores demanded that they not only unload the rail cars from the ship but unload and repack the rail car contents before turning the cars over to Cuban railways.
In 1951 Seatrain Lines returned to Sun Shipbuilding for two additional railcar carriers, the Seatrain Georgia and Seatrain Louisiana. That year Seatrain also ceased operations to and from Cuba, and renamed its ship Seatrain Havana to Seatrain Savannah to reflect the suspension of service. In 1953 Seatrain sold its operating authority to trade between the US and Cuba to the West India Fruit and Steamship Company, along with its first ship, the Seatrain New Orleans, which was renamed Sea Level.
The West India Fruit & Steamship Company operated a railcar ferry service between the Port of Palm Beach, Florida, and Havana, Cuba, from 1946 until worsening relations with the Castro government resulted in a trade embargo by the United States in 1960. I model 1956 so no problem. The company had boxcars and refrigerator cars in its fleet.
Upon further research I discovered that the company also ferried freight cars to New Orleans. By the middle 1950s, up to eighty railroad cars each way per day were being transferred between the United States and Cuba. Inbound freight to the U.S. included tobacco, refined sugar, pineapples, rum, tomatoes, slaughterhouse byproducts, and scrap metal. Cuban bound freight included less-than-carload merchandise, manufactured goods, chemicals, lard, railway equipment, temperate zone fruit such as apples, pears, and grapes, meat, dairy, steel products, and machinery.
These cars traveled all over. Here are photos of boxcars WIF 321 and WIF 106 in Vancouver, British Columbia:
And more research determined their freight cars did indeed travel to Oakland and Southern California. I even found a photograph of one of their cars in Los Angeles at a Southern Pacific yard:
https://digital.library.cornell.edu/catalog/ss:20988463
The boxcar (WIF 233) is just behind the two tank cars. Also notice the Canadian Pacific eight-hatch meat reefer (CP 283285) to the right.
Yet another car, this time in Philadelphia:
Another car was seen in Sudbury, ON, according to Pierre Oliver. His Elgin Car Shops model:
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
Oh! How'd you manage to get a photo of a car in Cuba?? Or should I not ask? :-)
On 2/21/2023 3:18 PM, Matt Herson wrote:
An update on the photo information. Photo was taken at Santa Clara, Santa Clara, Cuba 3-28-81. Car was built for Ferrocarriles Consolidados de Cuba not WIF.
Matt Herson
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2023 11:50 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] West India Fruit US bound lading
Matt Herson spotted this Cuban box car in Mexico, after the revolution
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
The Cuban car says "Azucar Refin' I think, which is a way of saying "sugar refining" in Spanish. I cant make out anything else legible on it.The lettering in the center of the star-circle is "AZUCAR REFINO", = refined sugar.
The circular lettering appears to read "USO EXCLUSIVO SU#C#V C CIENFUEGOS" with "TCC" at the bottom of the circle. The # marks indicate indecipherable small letters.
"Uso exclusivo" means "exclusive use", and I think "C. Cienfuegos" refers to the former Central Hershey sugar refinery, which was renamed Central Camilo Cienfuegos after the revolution and nationalization of sugar properties. The SUCV part appears to be an abbreviation for a four word term I can't decipher. So a car to carry refined sugar, assigned to the Cienfuegos refinery.
The car itself appears to be a U.S. built postwar boxcar, which must have been imported before the 1959 revolution. I'd assumed the lettering was original, but if my interpretation of C Cienfuegos is correct, that must have been applied after 1959.
So much for my interpretation. Does anyone have other info, or alternative interpretation?
Jack Mullen