Topics

What methods do you use to add weight to an empty flatcar?

Charlie Duckworth
 

I just received two of Chad Boas MP flatcar kits.  What methods are you all using to add weight so a flatcar can be run as an empty. 
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.

Benjamin Hom
 

Charlie Duckworth wrote:
"I just received two of Chad Boas MP flatcar kits.  What methods are you all using to add weight so a flatcar can be run as an empty?" 

Plan ahead.  Figure out what will and won't be visible when the car is on the track to determine where you can hide weight.  To echo Richard Hendrickson, no point in modeling what won't be seen, and not modeling underframe or brake details in exchange for accommodating weight is a fair trade if you want the car to operate well.  Try to maximize the amount of weight for the volume available - if you can't cut pieces of sheet lead, consider using the smallest shot you can find.  (I'm not sold on more exotic solutions such as titanium dust as the cost doesn't seem to justify the incremental gain).  Consider using thin sheet brass or lead under the deck if possible, and metal trucks if the correct type is available.  Don't wait until the car is painted and decaled before deciding to add weight to the car (or work coupler and truck issues for that matter).


Ben Hom

Chuck Cover
 

Charlie,

 

Attached is a photo of one way to add weight to a flat car.  In this case I used lead shot on my F34 kitbash model.  I have monthly operating sessions.  I run it empty and it operates without any problems. 

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM

O Fenton Wells
 

Charlie I use sheet lead cut into pieces that will fit underneath the body.  Then use contact cement to attach them.  I put the cement on both pieces and let them dry completely before pressing the lead into the body.
Fenton


On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 3:15 PM Charlie Duckworth <omahaduck@...> wrote:
I just received two of Chad Boas MP flatcar kits.  What methods are you all using to add weight so a flatcar can be run as an empty. 
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

Tony Thompson
 

Ben Hom wrote:

Plan ahead.  Figure out what will and won't be visible when the car is on the track to determine where you can hide weight.  To echo Richard Hendrickson, no point in modeling what won't be seen, and not modeling underframe or brake details in exchange for accommodating weight is a fair trade if you want the car to operate well.  Try to maximize the amount of weight for the volume available - if you can't cut pieces of sheet lead, consider using the smallest shot you can find.  (I'm not sold on more exotic solutions such as titanium dust as the cost doesn't seem to justify the incremental gain).  Consider using thin sheet brass or lead under the deck if possible, and metal trucks if the correct type is available.  Don't wait until the car is painted and decaled before deciding to add weight to the car (or work coupler and truck issues for that matter).

    Lead is significantly denser than brass. Titanium is rather less dense than either. I agree with Ben that lead is an excellent choice, especially in sheet form. You can readily buy this from roofers' supply stores (sometimes plumbers also) even if your local Big Box no longer carries it. And an advantage of lead is that it is so soft, you can readily "forge" pieces to fit where they need to go in an under frame. You barely need a hammer.
     There have occasionally been outbreaks of hysteria about the health dangers of lead. Well, lead in metallic form is not dangerous. It does have lead oxide on its surface, so do wash your hands after handling it, but beyond that, not to worry. 

Tony Thompson



Drew M.
 

I recently completed an F&C Rutland flat which I filled the area within the center sill with sheet lead. With metal trucks it tracks well.

Drew Marshall, Philly, PA

Modeling the pre-Depression years.

Sent from TypeApp

On Jun 12, 2020, at 15:15, Charlie Duckworth <omahaduck@...> wrote:
I just received two of Chad Boas MP flatcar kits.  What methods are you all using to add weight so a flatcar can be run as an empty. 

Benjamin Hom
 

Tony Thompson wrote:
"Lead is significantly denser than brass. Titanium is rather less dense than either. I agree with Ben that lead is an excellent choice, especially in sheet form. You can readily buy this from roofers' supply stores (sometimes plumbers also) even if your local Big Box no longer carries it. And an advantage of lead is that it is so soft, you can readily "forge" pieces to fit where they need to go in an under frame. You barely need a hammer."

To add - I don't like using the traditional kit-provided steel weights for light open cars, especially if you are using under track uncoupling magnets or the Rix uncoupling tool, as the magnets will "grab" the cars.


Ben Hom  

Dave Parker
 

I'm reasonably confident that Ben meant tungsten (1.7x the density of lead) rather than titanium. 
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA

Rob & Bev Manley
 

Charlie,
I built his NP flat from a few years ago. I used sheet lead from my old bathroom stack on the roof. I used a divider to measure the cells on the underside of the car and with T-Square and triangle copied the dimensions to the flattened sheet and scored with a stanley knife. I used Aileens Gold craft glue to secure the weight. Also did this to my CB&Q Mini-kit Flat. All 3 track great as empties. Accurail trucks with IM wheelsets.

Rob Manley
"Better modeling through personal embarrassment"


On Friday, June 12, 2020, 03:36:33 PM CDT, Dave Parker via groups.io <spottab@...> wrote:


I'm reasonably confident that Ben meant tungsten (1.7x the density of lead) rather than titanium. 
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA

Gary McMills
 

I use lead sheeting that is available in 1/16 inch thickness from https://www.rotometals.com/

Gary McMills

 


On 2020-06-12 14:52, Tony Thompson wrote:

Ben Hom wrote:

 
 
Plan ahead.  Figure out what will and won't be visible when the car is on the track to determine where you can hide weight.  To echo Richard Hendrickson, no point in modeling what won't be seen, and not modeling underframe or brake details in exchange for accommodating weight is a fair trade if you want the car to operate well.  Try to maximize the amount of weight for the volume available - if you can't cut pieces of sheet lead, consider using the smallest shot you can find.  (I'm not sold on more exotic solutions such as titanium dust as the cost doesn't seem to justify the incremental gain).  Consider using thin sheet brass or lead under the deck if possible, and metal trucks if the correct type is available.  Don't wait until the car is painted and decaled before deciding to add weight to the car (or work coupler and truck issues for that matter).
    Lead is significantly denser than brass. Titanium is rather less dense than either. I agree with Ben that lead is an excellent choice, especially in sheet form. You can readily buy this from roofers' supply stores (sometimes plumbers also) even if your local Big Box no longer carries it. And an advantage of lead is that it is so soft, you can readily "forge" pieces to fit where they need to go in an under frame. You barely need a hammer.
     There have occasionally been outbreaks of hysteria about the health dangers of lead. Well, lead in metallic form is not dangerous. It does have lead oxide on its surface, so do wash your hands after handling it, but beyond that, not to worry. 

Tony Thompson
 

Almufti Hishman
 

Here is a link to my solution for a Chad Boas flatcar, with photos.
https://groups.io/g/ResinFreightCarBuilders/message/5039?p=,,,20,0,0,0::Created,,first+resin,20,2,20,72516954
Search Southern flatcar finished.
I addressed added weight, and also anti-bow technique.

Regards,
Jeff Oliver

Tim O'Connor
 


Reasonably inexpensive TUNGSTEN "grit" is available online - I bought some on Amazon.
This is poured into center sills or under the floor and it's denser than lead, not dangerous, etc.


On 6/12/2020 3:52 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:
Ben Hom wrote:

Plan ahead.  Figure out what will and won't be visible when the car is on the track to determine where you can hide weight.  To echo Richard Hendrickson, no point in modeling what won't be seen, and not modeling underframe or brake details in exchange for accommodating weight is a fair trade if you want the car to operate well.  Try to maximize the amount of weight for the volume available - if you can't cut pieces of sheet lead, consider using the smallest shot you can find.  (I'm not sold on more exotic solutions such as titanium dust as the cost doesn't seem to justify the incremental gain).  Consider using thin sheet brass or lead under the deck if possible, and metal trucks if the correct type is available.  Don't wait until the car is painted and decaled before deciding to add weight to the car (or work coupler and truck issues for that matter).

    Lead is significantly denser than brass. Titanium is rather less dense than either. I agree with Ben that lead is an excellent choice, especially in sheet form. You can readily buy this from roofers' supply stores (sometimes plumbers also) even if your local Big Box no longer carries it. And an advantage of lead is that it is so soft, you can readily "forge" pieces to fit where they need to go in an under frame. You barely need a hammer.
     There have occasionally been outbreaks of hysteria about the health dangers of lead. Well, lead in metallic form is not dangerous. It does have lead oxide on its surface, so do wash your hands after handling it, but beyond that, not to worry. 

Tony Thompson


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Don DeLay
 

Here's one of my Red Caboose SP F-70-7's with lead shot glued underneath. 

Don DeLay

Ken Adams
 

If you build or look at the instructions for one of the Owl Mountain's  SP F-50-xx kits you will see Jason Hill's very ingenious design for small straight side sill flat car weighting that would be ideal if the weights used are available from his supplier. It is a design that upside down viewing will reveal an un-prototype arrangement but it is your choice of that or just a mantelpiece model. 
--
Ken Adams
Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek

Bruce Smith
 

On Cody's Office this week (Kalmbach, Model Railroader), Cody Grivno showed Woodland Scenic's tungsten putty, which is a moldable tungsten "clay"-like product that you can cram into spaces like center sills and underbodies. I was not aware of this product until then.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Ken Adams <smadanek44g@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2020 12:42 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] What methods do you use to add weight to an empty flatcar?
 
If you build or look at the instructions for one of the Owl Mountain's  SP F-50-xx kits you will see Jason Hill's very ingenious design for small straight side sill flat car weighting that would be ideal if the weights used are available from his supplier. It is a design that upside down viewing will reveal an un-prototype arrangement but it is your choice of that or just a mantelpiece model. 
--
Ken Adams
Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek

Gary Ray
 

I’ve been using it for years along with tungsten disks to weight pilot trucks when needed.  I’ve ordered from Maximum Velocity:  https://www.maximum-velocity.com/product/tungsten-putty-1-ounce/

 

But an internet search shows it is available for many sources including Amazon.

 

Gary Ray

Magalia, CA

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2020 11:13 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] What methods do you use to add weight to an empty flatcar?

 

On Cody's Office this week (Kalmbach, Model Railroader), Cody Grivno showed Woodland Scenic's tungsten putty, which is a moldable tungsten "clay"-like product that you can cram into spaces like center sills and underbodies. I was not aware of this product until then.

 

Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn, Al

 

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Peter Weiglin
 

Weights and lead shot -- I started thinking (always dangerous).  Smallest shot packs more densely.  It follows that lead powder would be densest of all.

Turns out that lead  powder is used to add weight to golf clubs, and is available (except, it seems, in eco-freaky California)  I bought a  pound of it for about ten bucks.

Drip CA or matte medium into the cavity, and add lead powder.  Works.

Of course, for things like flat cars, sheet lead, 1/16" thick, is sold for roofing purposes,  Cut to shape.  Use two layers if necessary and possicle.

Also useful for replacing or auglenting the weights in any kind of car.

Peter Weiglin

Tony Thompson
 

Peter Weiglin wrote:

Weights and lead shot -- I started thinking (always dangerous).  Smallest shot packs more densely.  It follows that lead powder would be densest of all.

     Actually, no. If all the shot is the same size, the PROPORTION of the space that is empty is identical for any chosen size. Of course the voids are much smaller with smaller shot, but there are many more of them.

Tony Thompson



Ted Culotta
 

I may be misunderstanding, Tony, but your calculation is "unfettered" whereas if you have a finite space to fill and you use larger rather than smaller "chunks" then you can't get as many in the finite space. I'll fit a pulverized sugar cube between center sills a lot more effectively than I will a solid sugar cube of the same volume. 

Cheers,
Ted

Ted Culotta
Speedwitch Media
P.O. Box 392, Guilford, CT 06437

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

True, thus a much better solution is to mix the shot with the powder and fill the interstices.

That’s still true regardless of the material chosen, and yes, tungsten is much heavier than lead. Actual metallic tungsten is best, but is very hard to cut or shape except by grinding. Tungsten particles, powder, or putty sounds like good option. Another option is tungsten-carbide which is also heavy. The T-C grit is a common abrasive, and in chunks it is formed into cutting tools. Broken or dulled T-C "inserts” make good weights.

Dan MItchell
==========

On Jun 19, 2020, at 12:20 PM, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:

Peter Weiglin wrote:

Weights and lead shot -- I started thinking (always dangerous).  Smallest shot packs more densely.  It follows that lead powder would be densest of all.

     Actually, no. If all the shot is the same size, the PROPORTION of the space that is empty is identical for any chosen size. Of course the voids are much smaller with smaller shot, but there are many more of them.

Tony Thompson