Topics

Whose gon is this?


Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

https://digital.hagley.org/1986268_1_0627

 

It looks like a P&LE replacement on a USRA gon, but that pump brake is unfamiliar to me.  Anyone recognize it by brand?

 

Interesting shot.

 

Elden Gatwood

 


Eric Hansmann
 

Eldon, that might be one of the P&LE or NYC composite mill gondolas. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Dec 4, 2020, at 6:41 PM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

https://digital.hagley.org/1986268_1_0627

 

It looks like a P&LE replacement on a USRA gon, but that pump brake is unfamiliar to me.  Anyone recognize it by brand?

 

Interesting shot.

 

Elden Gatwood

 


Andy Miller
 

Eldon,

 

It may be a Blackall brake.  I had to fabricate one for a Seaboard horse express car I recently kitbashed.   See attachment.

Plans for the handle were on eba at https://www.ebay.com/itm/United-States-Blackall-Brake-Handle-55-Ton-Hopper-Car-N-17B-Train-Blueprint-34-/283818245088

 

Regards,

 

Andy Miller

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Friday, December 4, 2020 7:42 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Whose gon is this?

 

https://digital.hagley.org/1986268_1_0627

 

It looks like a P&LE replacement on a USRA gon, but that pump brake is unfamiliar to me.  Anyone recognize it by brand?

 

Interesting shot.

 

Elden Gatwood

 


Dennis Storzek
 

Blackall hand brakes were common on USRA hoppers, can't see why they wouldn't be used on the gons, too.. These are not "pump" style brakes, but rather rotary, with an internal ratchet inside the cap that engaged by gravity alone. The short end of the handle was a cam that raised the cap, so dropping the handle raised the cap and disengaged the handle from the brake staff so the handle didn't fly around as the brake chain unwound. Raising the handle automatically engaged the ratchet.

Dennis Storzek


Dave Parker
 

I assume the original question was concerning the gon on the right?

It doesn't look like a USRA gon to me, but I do think the ratchet (not pump, as Dennis says) brake is probably a Blackall.  Blackall had multiple patents in the teens, and at least two designs with noticeably different "shapes".  The one in this photo looks like the drawing in US1136090 (1915), whereas the more familiar model seen on the USRA twin hoppers seems to be what's in US1252539 (1918).

As we discussed last year, the USRA composite gons seem to have all been outfitted with Perfection ratchet brakes, not Blackall (see Railway Rev., 1919, vol 64, p. 259).  Somewhat reminiscent of the Blackall design, but clearly different in the better photos.  The IM composite gon is correct in this regard.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Elden and List Members,
 
With respect to "Whose gon is this?" I assume we are talking about the gon on the right, where we get a good view of the end of the car...
 
I don't know whose gon it is, but it is a quite interesting car...
 
(1) The end nearest the camera is corrugated steel. It appears to me to be a drop end - am I correct?
 
(2) On the same car, the end furthest from the camera looks to me to be a WOOD end - does anyone else agree? Zoom in and take a look...
 
(3) I'm unable to tell if the car sides are steel or wood construction - any thoughts?
 
Claus Schlund
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2020 7:41 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Whose gon is this?

https://digital.hagley.org/1986268_1_0627

 

It looks like a P&LE replacement on a USRA gon, but that pump brake is unfamiliar to me.  Anyone recognize it by brand?

 

Interesting shot.

 

Elden Gatwood

 


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Comments below, Claus

 


Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Whose gon is this?

 

Hi Elden and List Members,

 

With respect to "Whose gon is this?" I assume we are talking about the gon on the right, where we get a good view of the end of the car...

 

I don't know whose gon it is, but it is a quite interesting car...

 

(1) The end nearest the camera is corrugated steel. It appears to me to be a drop end - am I correct?

I agree, a drop end.

 

(2) On the same car, the end furthest from the camera looks to me to be a WOOD end - does anyone else agree? Zoom in and take a look...

I zoomed in and I think that the car may be wood lined.  Look at the right side – we’re at the B end you know, so the right side is the one on the right in the photo – and it appears that may be wood lined as well.  Conceivable in my view due to the rough service the car is in. 

 

(3) I'm unable to tell if the car sides are steel or wood construction - any thoughts?

 I think steel sides, but then there’s the (maybe) wood lining?

 

That crane is really cool, too . . .

 

Schuyler

 

Claus Schlund

 

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, December 04, 2020 7:41 PM

Subject: [RealSTMFC] Whose gon is this?

 

https://digital.hagley.org/1986268_1_0627

 

It looks like a P&LE replacement on a USRA gon, but that pump brake is unfamiliar to me.  Anyone recognize it by brand?

 

Interesting shot.

 

Elden Gatwood

 


Eric Hansmann
 

Eldon,

 

My original thoughts on identifying that gondola from the car end went straight to some P&LE composite mill gondolas. Here’s a car diagram of what I think we see in that photo. Note how the end drop door is drawn.

http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-270.jpg

 

There were several possible P&LE mill gons with these end drop doors. Here’s a nice view of a Lot 333-G car from the Lackawanna Steamtown photo collection.

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-03-05-14/C4107.jpg

 

A neighboring image is a closer look at the end drop door.

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-03-04-14/C4106.jpg

 

As I review the original image again, I see Carmer uncoupling hardware. The Carmer products were not used on many NYCL cars, so my suggestions on the NYC/P&LE mill gon possibilities may have been for naught. But it still seems like a composite mill gon to me.

 

So we look elsewhere. How about this Lackawanna gon from another set of Steamtown photos?

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-06-07-18/X4571.jpg

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-06-07-18/X4573.jpg

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-06-07-18/X4574.jpg

 

This seems to be a closer possibility.  And we get a closer look at the cool brake hardware!

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Friday, December 4, 2020 6:42 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Whose gon is this?

 

https://digital.hagley.org/1986268_1_0627

 

It looks like a P&LE replacement on a USRA gon, but that pump brake is unfamiliar to me.  Anyone recognize it by brand?

 

Interesting shot.

 

Elden Gatwood

 


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Well, that clears up the construction of the sides . . .

 

Is the location of the Hagley shot known (I might have missed that)?  What are the chances that the gon in question is, in fact, the same class of gon from the DL&W?  There are no end reporting marks.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2020 11:08 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Whose gon is this?

 

Eldon,

 

My original thoughts on identifying that gondola from the car end went straight to some P&LE composite mill gondolas. Here’s a car diagram of what I think we see in that photo. Note how the end drop door is drawn.

http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-270.jpg

 

There were several possible P&LE mill gons with these end drop doors. Here’s a nice view of a Lot 333-G car from the Lackawanna Steamtown photo collection.

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-03-05-14/C4107.jpg

 

A neighboring image is a closer look at the end drop door.

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-03-04-14/C4106.jpg

 

As I review the original image again, I see Carmer uncoupling hardware. The Carmer products were not used on many NYCL cars, so my suggestions on the NYC/P&LE mill gon possibilities may have been for naught. But it still seems like a composite mill gon to me.

 

So we look elsewhere. How about this Lackawanna gon from another set of Steamtown photos?

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-06-07-18/X4571.jpg

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-06-07-18/X4573.jpg

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-06-07-18/X4574.jpg

 

This seems to be a closer possibility.  And we get a closer look at the cool brake hardware!

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Friday, December 4, 2020 6:42 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Whose gon is this?

 

https://digital.hagley.org/1986268_1_0627

 

It looks like a P&LE replacement on a USRA gon, but that pump brake is unfamiliar to me.  Anyone recognize it by brand?

 

Interesting shot.

 

Elden Gatwood

 


Eric Hansmann
 

Schuyler,

 

The Hagley site has this as an image title.

Locomotive crane operating in scrap yard, Industrial Works (Bay City, Mich.)

BTW, I feel many mill gons were free roamers. YMMV.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2020 10:20 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Whose gon is this?

 

Well, that clears up the construction of the sides . . .

 

Is the location of the Hagley shot known (I might have missed that)?  What are the chances that the gon in question is, in fact, the same class of gon from the DL&W?  There are no end reporting marks.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2020 11:08 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Whose gon is this?

 

Eldon,

 

My original thoughts on identifying that gondola from the car end went straight to some P&LE composite mill gondolas. Here’s a car diagram of what I think we see in that photo. Note how the end drop door is drawn.

http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-270.jpg

 

There were several possible P&LE mill gons with these end drop doors. Here’s a nice view of a Lot 333-G car from the Lackawanna Steamtown photo collection.

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-03-05-14/C4107.jpg

 

A neighboring image is a closer look at the end drop door.

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-03-04-14/C4106.jpg

 

As I review the original image again, I see Carmer uncoupling hardware. The Carmer products were not used on many NYCL cars, so my suggestions on the NYC/P&LE mill gon possibilities may have been for naught. But it still seems like a composite mill gon to me.

 

So we look elsewhere. How about this Lackawanna gon from another set of Steamtown photos?

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-06-07-18/X4571.jpg

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-06-07-18/X4573.jpg

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-06-07-18/X4574.jpg

 

This seems to be a closer possibility.  And we get a closer look at the cool brake hardware!

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Friday, December 4, 2020 6:42 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Whose gon is this?

 

https://digital.hagley.org/1986268_1_0627

 

It looks like a P&LE replacement on a USRA gon, but that pump brake is unfamiliar to me.  Anyone recognize it by brand?

 

Interesting shot.

 

Elden Gatwood

 


Mark Kapka
 

Hi 

Industrial works was the manufacturer of the crane ,may not be where the photo was taken.

Mark Kapka
Saginaw, Mich

On Dec 5, 2020, at 11:29 AM, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

Schuyler,
 
The Hagley site has this as an image title.
Locomotive crane operating in scrap yard, Industrial Works (Bay City, Mich.)
BTW, I feel many mill gons were free roamers. YMMV.
 
 
Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN
 
 
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2020 10:20 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Whose gon is this?
 
Well, that clears up the construction of the sides . . .
 
Is the location of the Hagley shot known (I might have missed that)?  What are the chances that the gon in question is, in fact, the same class of gon from the DL&W?  There are no end reporting marks.
 
Schuyler
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2020 11:08 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Whose gon is this?
 
Eldon,
 
My original thoughts on identifying that gondola from the car end went straight to some P&LE composite mill gondolas. Here’s a car diagram of what I think we see in that photo. Note how the end drop door is drawn.
 
There were several possible P&LE mill gons with these end drop doors. Here’s a nice view of a Lot 333-G car from the Lackawanna Steamtown photo collection.
 
A neighboring image is a closer look at the end drop door.
 
As I review the original image again, I see Carmer uncoupling hardware. The Carmer products were not used on many NYCL cars, so my suggestions on the NYC/P&LE mill gon possibilities may have been for naught. But it still seems like a composite mill gon to me.
 
So we look elsewhere. How about this Lackawanna gon from another set of Steamtown photos?
 
This seems to be a closer possibility.  And we get a closer look at the cool brake hardware!
 
 
Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN
 
 
 
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD 
Sent: Friday, December 4, 2020 6:42 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Whose gon is this?
 
 
It looks like a P&LE replacement on a USRA gon, but that pump brake is unfamiliar to me.  Anyone recognize it by brand?
 
Interesting shot.
 
Elden Gatwood
 



Dan Sweeney Jr
 

Claus, regarding the wood-appearing far end of the subject gon, I agree that it is wood, but suspect that it MAY be a temporary bulkhead interior to the car rather than the inside of the far end?

Dan Sweeney, Jr.
Alexandria, VA


Ray Hutchison
 

I'm trying to figure the height of the wall in the car on the right that everyone is discussing.  I am thinking that it is three 8" boards on the sides?  This would have been full dimensional lumber (like the boards in our house!) so24" or 2' high?

The car on the left is pretty interesting as well.

rh